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Thread: I suck at job interviews/I hate my job and everyone sucks[MEGATHREAD?]

  1. #4021
    Shaftoes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaftoes View Post
    So 9 months into my new role, I approached my boss this week to change to a new job with my department

    Fact of the matter is that I hated being a dev and it is something that does not come easily to me at all.

    So after speaking to him and speaking to my potential new boss it looks like I will be switching from being a java dev to a business analyst. I find doing the buisnessy stuff and research much more interesting anyway so it is a good fit for me.
    Congrats on communicating your desire to change tbh, loads of people would just remain miserable. You're on a civil service apprenticeship scheme right?
    Yup, and that is what made it so easy to change.

    I'm effectively being paid for by the cabinet office anyway, so the department I am working for doesn't really give a shit what I do as long as I pass. Nothing about my contract changes I just switch to doing different work day to day and get a different job at the end of my tenure.

    I was miserable as a dev. I did a BA course last week and decided to finally pull the trigger on switching. I had worked as a BA on various projects in the past when I first started so I knew exactly what I was letting myself in for.

    The thing I love about the civil service is that almost everyone in management is super chill (well, until you get to board / executive level)

  2. #4022

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    also if you want to stay a civil servant the career opportunities on that kind of career track are far better. techies struggle to breach 35-50k in most departments*, which is why they all fuck off and go contracting.

    *assuming they even join in the first place; that's graduate starting money in plenty of the private sector these days

  3. #4023
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    also if you want to stay a civil servant the career opportunities on that kind of career track are far better. techies struggle to breach 35-50k in most departments*, which is why they all fuck off and go contracting.

    *assuming they even join in the first place; that's graduate starting money in plenty of the private sector these days
    Yup, that another problem I foresaw.

    To go up a pay band as a dev it would take you 3-5 years of project work specialising in a particular language. On top of that you are expected to have in depth application knowledge specific to whatever legacy system you are working on. If I had stayed as a dev I would have had to finish my apprenticeship, worked for a year in my new role, quit and then rejoin as a contractor if I wanted to have a decent salary vis a vis the work I was doing.

    BAs on the other hand have a much more concrete upward progression, since most of the stuff they do is related to business, and have an easier time switching roles within the civil service. The only potential issue I see down the line is when they depreciate the job and replace everyone with product managers. Hopefully by then I will be in a bit more of a senior position

  4. #4024

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    Same job - civil service doesn't do product management, but it does do renaming things very well

  5. #4025
    Donor halbarad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Same job - civil service doesn't do product management, but it does do renaming things very well
    C. There isn't usually a huge amount of difference between the two roles in most places.

  6. #4026

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    Quote Originally Posted by halbarad View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Same job - civil service doesn't do product management, but it does do renaming things very well
    C. There isn't usually a huge amount of difference between the two roles in most places.
    There is, or at least there should be. A product manager is a decision maker, a business analyst should never ever ever make decisions. They provide information to support a product manager in their decisions.

  7. #4027
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by halbarad View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Same job - civil service doesn't do product management, but it does do renaming things very well
    C. There isn't usually a huge amount of difference between the two roles in most places.
    There is, or at least there should be. A product manager is a decision maker, a business analyst should never ever ever make decisions. They provide information to support a product manager in their decisions.
    Its a bit odd in my workplace.

    Product managers work exclusively with agile teams. The whole project is agile from start to finish and they perform more of a delivery manager style role,.
    BAs tend to work on more waterfall projects. Discovery, analysis, requirements etc. They also turn into user researchers on halfway house projects where the up front analysis is done in waterfall and delivery is done in agile.

    Since government is very slowly trundling toward exclusively working in an agile and open source fashion, BAs will eventually become obsolete as their job will be split between project and product managers

  8. #4028

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    I've had agile projects with BAs attached. When doing Agile, you still often need people to understand the business and turn that into requirements, even if they look a bit different to what you'd see in a classic waterfall project.

  9. #4029
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    Applying for new job. Applications close 23:59

    Leaving it until 23:57 to click submit just because

    EDIT Did not leave it until 23:59. Somewhate disappointed in myself, but now able to lapse into carb coma after massive curryfeast.
    Last edited by Malcanis; October 13 2017 at 07:43:15 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  10. #4030
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    I've always assumed all these roles and concepts are largely BS, are they not?

  11. #4031
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    I've always assumed all these roles and concepts are largely BS, are they not?
    No. At the leanest you can make a dev process (imho), you need 5. ui/ux, dev, qa, timekeeper (project manager), voice of the stakeholders (product manager). More is luxury and to give those roles more bandwidth.
    meh

  12. #4032
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    I've always assumed all these roles and concepts are largely BS, are they not?
    No. At the leanest you can make a dev process (imho), you need 5. ui/ux, dev, qa, timekeeper (project manager), voice of the stakeholders (product manager). More is luxury and to give those roles more bandwidth.
    That explanation of product vs project manager makes sense cheers

  13. #4033
    Donor Aea's Avatar
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    Hah, testing.


  14. #4034

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    I've always assumed all these roles and concepts are largely BS, are they not?
    No. At the leanest you can make a dev process (imho), you need 5. ui/ux, dev, qa, timekeeper (project manager), voice of the stakeholders (product manager). More is luxury and to give those roles more bandwidth.
    That explanation of product vs project manager makes sense cheers
    Confirming that's a supremely effective explanation.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

  15. #4035
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aea View Post
    Hah, testing.

    How to trigger Erichkknaar
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  16. #4036
    Donor halbarad's Avatar
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    Just been told I got the payrise I asked for, a nice 8k bump from next month.

    Time to start spending it on hookers and blow or the Yorkshire equivalent.

  17. #4037

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    Trying to find new job for last 4 month, so sick and tired from job interview and all this s*it, hope this nightmare will ends soon.

  18. #4038
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    So I'm training for a new role at work which is basically a promotion, right.

    Since I'm on third shift and third shift always gets the short end of the personnel straw, a lack of warm bodies has consistently hindered my training process because I'm frequently needed to do the job I already know how to do and the shift super can't spare me to do anything else. I "started" training at the end of August; if I'd been able to keep to a consistent schedule I'd have been finished by now. Both I and my super have brought this up with the production manager; all three of us are aware of the problem, but there's just not a lot that can be done except hire new staff which they're constantly doing because we've had a bad batch of new hires who fucked off after a few weeks.

    Anyway; this week management announced that they're looking to hire new trainees. Not new labourers to replace the ones getting bumped to training, they're looking to hire folks straight onto machine operator training. Fine, fine - a couple of operators left and we're moving to a new building and getting more machines so I get that they're needed, and I'm also being constantly assured that they're doing everything they can to get me my training hours when the production schedule permits it. They're making an effort.

    Today the production manager calls me and asks me to write a short letter about why I want to be an operator and "what you can bring to the table" and email it to him before the end of the week. Basically he wants a cover letter. For a job I'm already being trained for. That I'd already been promised.

    I'm sure it's nothing more than some new HR policy bullshit, but between this and the new hiring push I admit my feathers were a bit ruffled by this request - and I can't help but notice they occured in quick succession.

    So I banged it out when I got home and fired it off. Except it ended up being more than a quick paragraph. I did a full-blown balls-to-the-wall cover letter pitch.

    I titled the email "Bringing Something to the Table" and apologised for going a bit long, but added that I "didn't want to leave anything out".
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
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  19. #4039
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    So I'm training for a new role at work which is basically a promotion, right.

    Since I'm on third shift and third shift always gets the short end of the personnel straw, a lack of warm bodies has consistently hindered my training process because I'm frequently needed to do the job I already know how to do and the shift super can't spare me to do anything else. I "started" training at the end of August; if I'd been able to keep to a consistent schedule I'd have been finished by now. Both I and my super have brought this up with the production manager; all three of us are aware of the problem, but there's just not a lot that can be done except hire new staff which they're constantly doing because we've had a bad batch of new hires who fucked off after a few weeks.

    Anyway; this week management announced that they're looking to hire new trainees. Not new labourers to replace the ones getting bumped to training, they're looking to hire folks straight onto machine operator training. Fine, fine - a couple of operators left and we're moving to a new building and getting more machines so I get that they're needed, and I'm also being constantly assured that they're doing everything they can to get me my training hours when the production schedule permits it. They're making an effort.

    Today the production manager calls me and asks me to write a short letter about why I want to be an operator and "what you can bring to the table" and email it to him before the end of the week. Basically he wants a cover letter. For a job I'm already being trained for. That I'd already been promised.

    I'm sure it's nothing more than some new HR policy bullshit, but between this and the new hiring push I admit my feathers were a bit ruffled by this request - and I can't help but notice they occured in quick succession.

    So I banged it out when I got home and fired it off. Except it ended up being more than a quick paragraph. I did a full-blown balls-to-the-wall cover letter pitch.

    I titled the email "Bringing Something to the Table" and apologised for going a bit long, but added that I "didn't want to leave anything out".
    Sounds like at my place of work. I'm a supervisor (in training though - currently more on the technical side of our assembly-lines). If you have anything in writing (as in email) from before that confirms that you are already are accepted in training, print it out, save it. Even better if there's a plan that shows that you should already be finished with your training. Could be helpful for negotiating salary or bonus ... because you know, you already should get your higher pay but they won't let you finish you training.

  20. #4040
    Movember 2012 I Legionnaire's Avatar
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    My boss low-key told me to ask for a raise.

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