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Thread: US Politics Thread, 2.0

  1. #11481
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    "conspiracies never happen"

    Um, that's not evidence, Mr. Trump.
    Just like there was no evidence of mass surveillance until Snowden's sacrifice.

    Just like there was no evidence of collusion within the DNC in 2016 until the Russians hacked the DNC servers and leaked the emails showing there was.

    etc etc
    Evidence of other issues is not evidence of YOUR conspiracy, Mr. Trump.

    Just because this apple IS is fact red, does not make that Orange over there behind your back red as well.

    Fuck sake, why does everyone fall into this same pit regardless of their ideology. Everything they're unhappy with is a conspiracy.

    Sometime individuals acting in their own individual interests do things that result in shit we're unhappy about. It's not always a conspiracy ffs.

    With that said, I LOVE the idea of Elizabeth Warren in shadowy back rooms making deals with the DNC and Biden, then getting turned on and taken out like we're watching a Mafia movie. Lol.
    There are backroom deals at every single political gathering for every party or organization in the history of humans practicing political thought since the time we were hunter gatherers with no recorded language and it's foolish to think otherwise.

    Conspiracies happen. And most of them are never going to be proven. That's why they're successful conspiracies.

  2. #11482
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    "conspiracies never happen"

    Um, that's not evidence, Mr. Trump.
    Just like there was no evidence of mass surveillance until Snowden's sacrifice.

    Just like there was no evidence of collusion within the DNC in 2016 until the Russians hacked the DNC servers and leaked the emails showing there was.

    etc etc
    Or that there was no evidence that the only reason Trump is president is that his Russian friends cheated for him.
    You're willfully ignorant Erich. I don't expect you to educate yourself, and when presented with evidence that does not support your approved viewpoints I expect you'll ignore it, but here you go.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_D...tee_email_leak

    Bernie Sanders' campaign
    In the emails, DNC staffers derided the Sanders campaign.[25] The Washington Post reported: "Many of the most damaging emails suggest the committee was actively trying to undermine Bernie Sanders's presidential campaign. Basically, all of these examples came late in the primary—after Hillary Clinton was clearly headed for victory—but they belie the national party committee's stated neutrality in the race even at that late stage."[6]

    In a May 2016 email chain, the DNC chief financial officer (CFO) Brad Marshall told the DNC chief executive officer, Amy Dacy, that they should have someone from the media ask Sanders if he is an atheist prior to the West Virginia primary.[6][26]

    On May 21, 2016, DNC National Press Secretary Mark Paustenbach sent an email to DNC Spokesman Luis Miranda mentioning a controversy that ensued in December 2015, when the National Data Director of the Sanders campaign and three subordinate staffers accessed the Clinton campaign's voter information on the NGP VAN database.[27] (The party accused Sanders' campaign of impropriety and briefly limited its access to the database. The Sanders campaign filed suit for breach of contract against the DNC, but dropped the suit on April 29, 2016.)[26][28][29] Paustenbach suggested that the incident could be used to promote a "narrative for a story, which is that Bernie never had his act together, that his campaign was a mess." The DNC rejected this suggestion.[6][26] The Washington Post wrote: "Paustenbach's suggestion, in that way, could be read as a defense of the committee rather than pushing negative information about Sanders. But this is still the committee pushing negative information about one of its candidates."[6]
    whatabout, whatabout, whatabout.

    The refuge of people with no real argument.
    Me: The DNC colluded against sanders as revealed by the Russian hack.

    You: Yeah but whatabout trump winning the election

    Me: Here's evidence with sources in the link showing the DNC conspiring against sanders, but you'll probably disregard it.

    You: WHATABOUT

    T. Saffa logic. I'm politely chuckling as I watch you descend further into American political doublethink.
    Just like I chuckle as I watch you believe Russian memes.
    meh

  3. #11483

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post

    Just because this apple IS is fact red, does not make that Orange over there behind your back red as well.
    Ackschully...Once upon a time they were, in fact, red.

  4. #11484
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    "conspiracies never happen"

    Um, that's not evidence, Mr. Trump.
    Just like there was no evidence of mass surveillance until Snowden's sacrifice.

    Just like there was no evidence of collusion within the DNC in 2016 until the Russians hacked the DNC servers and leaked the emails showing there was.

    etc etc
    Or that there was no evidence that the only reason Trump is president is that his Russian friends cheated for him.
    You're willfully ignorant Erich. I don't expect you to educate yourself, and when presented with evidence that does not support your approved viewpoints I expect you'll ignore it, but here you go.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_D...tee_email_leak

    Bernie Sanders' campaign
    In the emails, DNC staffers derided the Sanders campaign.[25] The Washington Post reported: "Many of the most damaging emails suggest the committee was actively trying to undermine Bernie Sanders's presidential campaign. Basically, all of these examples came late in the primary—after Hillary Clinton was clearly headed for victory—but they belie the national party committee's stated neutrality in the race even at that late stage."[6]

    In a May 2016 email chain, the DNC chief financial officer (CFO) Brad Marshall told the DNC chief executive officer, Amy Dacy, that they should have someone from the media ask Sanders if he is an atheist prior to the West Virginia primary.[6][26]

    On May 21, 2016, DNC National Press Secretary Mark Paustenbach sent an email to DNC Spokesman Luis Miranda mentioning a controversy that ensued in December 2015, when the National Data Director of the Sanders campaign and three subordinate staffers accessed the Clinton campaign's voter information on the NGP VAN database.[27] (The party accused Sanders' campaign of impropriety and briefly limited its access to the database. The Sanders campaign filed suit for breach of contract against the DNC, but dropped the suit on April 29, 2016.)[26][28][29] Paustenbach suggested that the incident could be used to promote a "narrative for a story, which is that Bernie never had his act together, that his campaign was a mess." The DNC rejected this suggestion.[6][26] The Washington Post wrote: "Paustenbach's suggestion, in that way, could be read as a defense of the committee rather than pushing negative information about Sanders. But this is still the committee pushing negative information about one of its candidates."[6]
    whatabout, whatabout, whatabout.

    The refuge of people with no real argument.
    Me: The DNC colluded against sanders as revealed by the Russian hack.

    You: Yeah but whatabout trump winning the election

    Me: Here's evidence with sources in the link showing the DNC conspiring against sanders, but you'll probably disregard it.

    You: WHATABOUT

    T. Saffa logic. I'm politely chuckling as I watch you descend further into American political doublethink.
    Just like I chuckle as I watch you believe Russian memes.
    Keep telling yourself the 2016 DNC email hack was just memes Erich. I'm sure it's comforting to believe that.

  5. #11485
    Venec's Avatar
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    >2020
    >believing anything mainstream political parties say or claim

    Come on guys, you're smarter than this.

  6. #11486
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    "conspiracies never happen"

    Um, that's not evidence, Mr. Trump.
    Just like there was no evidence of mass surveillance until Snowden's sacrifice.

    Just like there was no evidence of collusion within the DNC in 2016 until the Russians hacked the DNC servers and leaked the emails showing there was.

    etc etc
    Or that there was no evidence that the only reason Trump is president is that his Russian friends cheated for him.
    You're willfully ignorant Erich. I don't expect you to educate yourself, and when presented with evidence that does not support your approved viewpoints I expect you'll ignore it, but here you go.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_D...tee_email_leak

    Bernie Sanders' campaign
    In the emails, DNC staffers derided the Sanders campaign.[25] The Washington Post reported: "Many of the most damaging emails suggest the committee was actively trying to undermine Bernie Sanders's presidential campaign. Basically, all of these examples came late in the primary—after Hillary Clinton was clearly headed for victory—but they belie the national party committee's stated neutrality in the race even at that late stage."[6]

    In a May 2016 email chain, the DNC chief financial officer (CFO) Brad Marshall told the DNC chief executive officer, Amy Dacy, that they should have someone from the media ask Sanders if he is an atheist prior to the West Virginia primary.[6][26]

    On May 21, 2016, DNC National Press Secretary Mark Paustenbach sent an email to DNC Spokesman Luis Miranda mentioning a controversy that ensued in December 2015, when the National Data Director of the Sanders campaign and three subordinate staffers accessed the Clinton campaign's voter information on the NGP VAN database.[27] (The party accused Sanders' campaign of impropriety and briefly limited its access to the database. The Sanders campaign filed suit for breach of contract against the DNC, but dropped the suit on April 29, 2016.)[26][28][29] Paustenbach suggested that the incident could be used to promote a "narrative for a story, which is that Bernie never had his act together, that his campaign was a mess." The DNC rejected this suggestion.[6][26] The Washington Post wrote: "Paustenbach's suggestion, in that way, could be read as a defense of the committee rather than pushing negative information about Sanders. But this is still the committee pushing negative information about one of its candidates."[6]
    whatabout, whatabout, whatabout.

    The refuge of people with no real argument.
    Me: The DNC colluded against sanders as revealed by the Russian hack.

    You: Yeah but whatabout trump winning the election

    Me: Here's evidence with sources in the link showing the DNC conspiring against sanders, but you'll probably disregard it.

    You: WHATABOUT

    T. Saffa logic. I'm politely chuckling as I watch you descend further into American political doublethink.
    Just like I chuckle as I watch you believe Russian memes.
    Keep telling yourself the 2016 DNC email hack was just memes Erich. I'm sure it's comforting to believe that.
    What, that 30% of the county directly support treason? Nah. Not really.

    I like Bernie and I voted for him twice, but the truth is, just not enough of the 2nd party in our two party state are buying what he’s selling. His frothing supporters can’t get over the fact this was true in 2016 as well.
    Last edited by erichkknaar; August 6 2020 at 09:30:11 PM.
    meh

  7. #11487
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post

    Yeah, keeping everyone in the race to siphon votes away from Sanders during super Tuesday definitely wasn't overt manipulation of the electorate, nope.
    fyp
    No, Buttigieg and Klobuchar both dropped out and endorsed Biden the weekend before Super Tuesday, doesn't add to my argument it was democratic, but let's get our facts straight.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  8. #11488
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post

    Yeah, keeping everyone in the race to siphon votes away from Sanders during super Tuesday definitely wasn't overt manipulation of the electorate, nope.
    fyp
    No, Buttigieg and Klobuchar both dropped out and endorsed Biden the weekend before Super Tuesday, doesn't add to my argument it was democratic, but let's get our facts straight.
    Fair enough.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
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    WTF I hate white people now...
    Johns Hopkins CSSE COVID-19 Dashboard

  9. #11489
    Movember '11 Best Facial Hair, Best 'Tache Movember 2011Movember 2012Donor helgur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    TBD in my view.

    Biden crushes Trump in a landslide, hard to see it as a "stupid" choice, unless ideological purity trumps pragmatic victory and the end of Trump.
    I wish I had your confidence. I hope you're right

  10. #11490
    rufuske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    "conspiracies never happen"

    Um, that's not evidence, Mr. Trump.
    Just like there was no evidence of mass surveillance until Snowden's sacrifice.

    Just like there was no evidence of collusion within the DNC in 2016 until the Russians hacked the DNC servers and leaked the emails showing there was.

    etc etc
    Or that there was no evidence that the only reason Trump is president is that his Russian friends cheated for him.
    You're willfully ignorant Erich. I don't expect you to educate yourself, and when presented with evidence that does not support your approved viewpoints I expect you'll ignore it, but here you go.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_D...tee_email_leak

    Bernie Sanders' campaign
    In the emails, DNC staffers derided the Sanders campaign.[25] The Washington Post reported: "Many of the most damaging emails suggest the committee was actively trying to undermine Bernie Sanders's presidential campaign. Basically, all of these examples came late in the primary—after Hillary Clinton was clearly headed for victory—but they belie the national party committee's stated neutrality in the race even at that late stage."[6]

    In a May 2016 email chain, the DNC chief financial officer (CFO) Brad Marshall told the DNC chief executive officer, Amy Dacy, that they should have someone from the media ask Sanders if he is an atheist prior to the West Virginia primary.[6][26]

    On May 21, 2016, DNC National Press Secretary Mark Paustenbach sent an email to DNC Spokesman Luis Miranda mentioning a controversy that ensued in December 2015, when the National Data Director of the Sanders campaign and three subordinate staffers accessed the Clinton campaign's voter information on the NGP VAN database.[27] (The party accused Sanders' campaign of impropriety and briefly limited its access to the database. The Sanders campaign filed suit for breach of contract against the DNC, but dropped the suit on April 29, 2016.)[26][28][29] Paustenbach suggested that the incident could be used to promote a "narrative for a story, which is that Bernie never had his act together, that his campaign was a mess." The DNC rejected this suggestion.[6][26] The Washington Post wrote: "Paustenbach's suggestion, in that way, could be read as a defense of the committee rather than pushing negative information about Sanders. But this is still the committee pushing negative information about one of its candidates."[6]
    whatabout, whatabout, whatabout.

    The refuge of people with no real argument.
    Me: The DNC colluded against sanders as revealed by the Russian hack.

    You: Yeah but whatabout trump winning the election

    Me: Here's evidence with sources in the link showing the DNC conspiring against sanders, but you'll probably disregard it.

    You: WHATABOUT

    T. Saffa logic. I'm politely chuckling as I watch you descend further into American political doublethink.
    Just like I chuckle as I watch you believe Russian memes.
    Keep telling yourself the 2016 DNC email hack was just memes Erich. I'm sure it's comforting to believe that.
    What, that 30% of the county directly support treason? Nah. Not really.

    I like Bernie and I voted for him twice, but the truth is, just not enough of the 2nd party in our two party state are buying what he’s selling. His frothing supporters can’t get over the fact this was true in 2016 as well.


    Why do you think everyone reasonable knew Trump isn't going to be removed from the office on Russia's involvement causes? And that trial will find nothing? Just because any other outcome would be admittance they got played.

  11. #11491
    rufuske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    TBD in my view.

    Biden crushes Trump in a landslide, hard to see it as a "stupid" choice, unless ideological purity trumps pragmatic victory and the end of Trump.
    I wish I had your confidence. I hope you're right
    He won't, Trump will get 2nd term by a tiny margin and after some recounts.

  12. #11492
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    TBD in my view.

    Biden crushes Trump in a landslide, hard to see it as a "stupid" choice, unless ideological purity trumps pragmatic victory and the end of Trump.
    I wish I had your confidence. I hope you're right
    I wouldn't call it confidence. I can't tell you how massively disappointed I am in my country circa 2016-2020 and especially 2020 since COVID.

    I have no expectation they won't go right ahead and do the dumb thing and elect this horrible man again. I never thought (or imagined) they would have elected him the first time.

    Which is perhaps why my sights are set so much lower than our resident blow-it-all-up-fuck-the-losses E-Revolutionaries.

    I don't want mass violence, I don't want mass destruction, I don't want what could come with a Trump victory and ongoing social unrest. Call it greedy self-interest if it makes one feel better, I freely admit some of it is certain self-interest, but it is what it is.

    I want my adopted country to do the right thing, pick the materially lesser of these two particular evils, and get us back to NORMAL first and foremost. Once we have normal again, I want to see some progress, yes, and I will happily support petitioning our newly normal (D) leadership to be progressive on many issues, environment, healthcare, drug policy, gun policy, etc.

    But be assured, if we fail to get to normal, none of that shit matters because we simply won't get it. We'll get bad things and horror, and no promise it'll end the way the E-Revolutionaries think/hope it will.

    I'm a man who voted Republican (sometimes) and Libertarian (alot) my entire life, who may now be a future lifelong Democrat or even Progressive Party (should one arise) voter, as we stand today.

    My personal political paradigm has been radically altered as is because of the last four years (and some chat here at FHC and elsewhere).

    I'm not confident, I'm desperate. We got to show the world we see our mistake, and are course correcting.


  13. #11493
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    TBD in my view.

    Biden crushes Trump in a landslide, hard to see it as a "stupid" choice, unless ideological purity trumps pragmatic victory and the end of Trump.
    I wish I had your confidence. I hope you're right
    I wouldn't call it confidence. I can't tell you how massively disappointed I am in my country circa 2016-2020 and especially 2020 since COVID.

    I have no expectation they won't go right ahead and do the dumb thing and elect this horrible man again. I never thought (or imagined) they would have elected him the first time.

    Which is perhaps why my sights are set so much lower than our resident blow-it-all-up-fuck-the-losses E-Revolutionaries.

    I don't want mass violence, I don't want mass destruction, I don't want what could come with a Trump victory and ongoing social unrest. Call it greedy self-interest if it makes one feel better, I freely admit some of it is certain self-interest, but it is what it is.

    I want my adopted country to do the right thing, pick the materially lesser of these two particular evils, and get us back to NORMAL first and foremost. Once we have normal again, I want to see some progress, yes, and I will happily support petitioning our newly normal (D) leadership to be progressive on many issues, environment, healthcare, drug policy, gun policy, etc.

    But be assured, if we fail to get to normal, none of that shit matters because we simply won't get it. We'll get bad things and horror, and no promise it'll end the way the E-Revolutionaries think/hope it will.

    I'm a man who voted Republican (sometimes) and Libertarian (alot) my entire life, who may now be a future lifelong Democrat or even Progressive Party (should one arise) voter, as we stand today.

    My personal political paradigm has been radically altered as is because of the last four years (and some chat here at FHC and elsewhere).

    I'm not confident, I'm desperate. We got to show the world we see our mistake, and are course correcting.
    It doesn't matter what anyone wants. If Trump is elected again, you are going to get a very serious economic crash that will make the "great" depression look like a small cash flow problem, and the breakdown in safety that comes with that kind of rapid disintegration of society.

    You probably won't get a real civil war because modern Americans are chickenshit, but its super likely that within the next 10 years, a big war between a flailing, failing US and much stronger adversaries for small things like control of the pacific and european spheres of influence.
    meh

  14. #11494

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    TBD in my view.

    Biden crushes Trump in a landslide, hard to see it as a "stupid" choice, unless ideological purity trumps pragmatic victory and the end of Trump.
    I wish I had your confidence. I hope you're right
    I wouldn't call it confidence. I can't tell you how massively disappointed I am in my country circa 2016-2020 and especially 2020 since COVID.

    I have no expectation they won't go right ahead and do the dumb thing and elect this horrible man again. I never thought (or imagined) they would have elected him the first time.

    Which is perhaps why my sights are set so much lower than our resident blow-it-all-up-fuck-the-losses E-Revolutionaries.

    I don't want mass violence, I don't want mass destruction, I don't want what could come with a Trump victory and ongoing social unrest. Call it greedy self-interest if it makes one feel better, I freely admit some of it is certain self-interest, but it is what it is.

    I want my adopted country to do the right thing, pick the materially lesser of these two particular evils, and get us back to NORMAL first and foremost. Once we have normal again, I want to see some progress, yes, and I will happily support petitioning our newly normal (D) leadership to be progressive on many issues, environment, healthcare, drug policy, gun policy, etc.

    But be assured, if we fail to get to normal, none of that shit matters because we simply won't get it. We'll get bad things and horror, and no promise it'll end the way the E-Revolutionaries think/hope it will.

    I'm a man who voted Republican (sometimes) and Libertarian (alot) my entire life, who may now be a future lifelong Democrat or even Progressive Party (should one arise) voter, as we stand today.

    My personal political paradigm has been radically altered as is because of the last four years (and some chat here at FHC and elsewhere).

    I'm not confident, I'm desperate. We got to show the world we see our mistake, and are course correcting.
    The best hope long term for the country is if Trump gets reelected but all his support is removed from underneath him (ie the Senate flips).

    There is no Normal to get back to, only a broken system that has been exposed for all to see, that needs replacing; sorry if you are inconvenienced from your relative position of luxury while you those in real poverty seek equality (Not a personal poke at you Alistar, a general wake up call to the "middle class" with their "first world problems").

    The most dangerous thing is someone who declares their position as a fixed immutable position, instead of voting each election in a vacuum; this is how Trump got elected in the first place.

  15. #11495
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ego Proxy View Post
    There is no Normal to get back to, only a broken system that has been exposed for all to see, that needs replacing...
    I presume you mean Capitalism and private property? If not, please correct me.

    What do you intend to replace it with, specifically?

    sorry if you are inconvenienced from your relative position of luxury while you those in real poverty seek equality (Not a personal poke at you Alistar, a general wake up call to the "middle class" with their "first world problems")
    No, you're fine poking me for that, because it's true. I do not want to lose any of what I have worked so hard to obtain (financially), I freely admit that.

    I'm happy to support Government policies that will provide a more even playing field, like Universal healthcare, or like changing how American schools are funded from local property tax per jurisdiction to a State-based all-jurisdictions-get-the-same-per-student type system, as one of my favorite examples), or changing drug laws and sentence guidelines, etc. And I appreciate a number of you think that is not nearly enough.


  16. #11496
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ego Proxy View Post
    There is no Normal to get back to, only a broken system that has been exposed for all to see, that needs replacing...
    I presume you mean Capitalism and private property? If not, please correct me.

    What do you intend to replace it with, specifically?

    sorry if you are inconvenienced from your relative position of luxury while you those in real poverty seek equality (Not a personal poke at you Alistar, a general wake up call to the "middle class" with their "first world problems")
    No, you're fine poking me for that, because it's true. I do not want to lose any of what I have worked so hard to obtain (financially), I freely admit that.

    I'm happy to support Government policies that will provide a more even playing field, like Universal healthcare, or like changing how American schools are funded from local property tax per jurisdiction to a State-based all-jurisdictions-get-the-same-per-student type system, as one of my favorite examples), or changing drug laws and sentence guidelines, etc. And I appreciate a number of you think that is not nearly enough.
    The root problem is that those very examples of policies you have chosen don't 'just happen' to disproportionately attack the disadvantaged and help the privileged. They were deliberately intended, designed and implemented to do that from the outset. Feature, not a bug, as we like to say now.

    And a very large minority of your countrymen will do whatever they think themselves able to do in order to protect those privileges. That has been made abundantly clear in the last 4 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  17. #11497
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Even conceding the slightest amount of privilege is considered as extreme oppression.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  18. #11498
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Even conceding the slightest amount of privilege is considered as extreme oppression.
    Care to be a bit more specific, what privilege(s) specifically are you advocating be conceded.


  19. #11499
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ego Proxy View Post
    There is no Normal to get back to, only a broken system that has been exposed for all to see, that needs replacing...
    I presume you mean Capitalism and private property? If not, please correct me.

    What do you intend to replace it with, specifically?

    sorry if you are inconvenienced from your relative position of luxury while you those in real poverty seek equality (Not a personal poke at you Alistar, a general wake up call to the "middle class" with their "first world problems")
    No, you're fine poking me for that, because it's true. I do not want to lose any of what I have worked so hard to obtain (financially), I freely admit that.

    I'm happy to support Government policies that will provide a more even playing field, like Universal healthcare, or like changing how American schools are funded from local property tax per jurisdiction to a State-based all-jurisdictions-get-the-same-per-student type system, as one of my favorite examples), or changing drug laws and sentence guidelines, etc. And I appreciate a number of you think that is not nearly enough.
    The root problem is that those very examples of policies you have chosen don't 'just happen' to disproportionately attack the disadvantaged and help the privileged. They were deliberately intended, designed and implemented to do that from the outset. Feature, not a bug, as we like to say now.

    And a very large minority of your countrymen will do whatever they think themselves able to do in order to protect those privileges. That has been made abundantly clear in the last 4 years.
    Let's look one by one:

    -Schools being a local thing, funded locally. Not a fuck the poors intent at all to start IMO (circa 1776), it was a demand by States to keep education local at the founding. A States power issue, not explicit or intended poor fucking per se. But it has certainly kept it that way as time has gone on, given wealth disparity in neighborhoods/counties/etc. Hence why now it needs to change.

    Although that will be a huge lift, try telling any American taxpayer (even progressives) that their property tax will be taken from their kids school to fund poor jurisdiction kid schools. No one ever seem to like this one, including people who really should. As a kidless man, I could give two shits frankly. No horse in the race, and a more broadly, equally educated society works better for me and is how it should be. Of course, then the argument would be "all education should be Federal, with every student in America being funded the same" in order to stop state to state variance, and we're back to a "Feds should do everything, dissolve the States" question as usual.

    -Universal Healthcare vs. Insurance. Ideological difference as it's always been. Right thinks everything should be earned, including healthcare. Left thinks everything should be a right, including healthcare. I guess taken at it's most evil, the right can be seen as a fuck the poors view, although I don;t see it that way, it's more a "work for what you get" mentality, for which, I have to tell you, there is some merit IMO. Just not for healthcare of basic food IMO.

    -Drug laws/Sentencing. Total fear-based racist-fest, unquestionably so.
    Last edited by Alistair; August 7 2020 at 09:01:26 PM.


  20. #11500
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    And of course don't forget your favorite; the electoral college.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

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