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Thread: US Politics Thread, 2.0

  1. #14601
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Not in enough states to matter
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  2. #14602
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I was being extremely sarcastic.

    Student debt forgiveness isn't a concession to the working class.
    I disagree







    Higher absolute numbers of debt are held by higher income households. And mid-high earners make up more than half of borrowers. But they generally won't be the people defaulting and lingering with 20k in debt for years. And that 20k debt is just gonna hamstring your future if you're just earning 40-50k instead of say 150k like a good little doctor or engineer.



    https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/whi...t-student-debt

    But the fact that a relatively small share of outstanding education debt is held by low-income households does not mean that these households have not borrowed. The bottom income quartile includes a larger share of the borrowers than of the debt. Seventeen percent of the households with education debt are in this income bracket. And although they may not hold large amounts of debt, 42 percent of those with education debt have an associate’s degree or less. For these households, even lower-than-average debt levels can cause financial strain.
    The largest share of borrowers went to community colleges or technical schools.

    The picture this paints is that higher-income households hold a higher absolute number of debt, but you're still seeing a lot of debt pile up at the bottom 50% because everyone has to get some kind of credential to stay relevant these days. And it hits those people much harder proportionately because their incomes are a lot lower. So what if they only got 10k in student loans vs. some doctor with six figs debt? That's gonna suck so much more if you only make $12/hr. Think about it, even barbers and hairdressers end up with student debt now...
    Last edited by mewninn; November 20 2020 at 10:56:27 PM.

  3. #14603
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    More Cult45 news: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN2801D4

    SUNDOWN, Texas (Reuters) - Brett Fryar is a middle-class Republican. A 50-year-old chiropractor in this west Texas town, he owns a small business. He has two undergraduate degrees and a master’s degree, in organic chemistry. He attends Southcrest Baptist Church in nearby Lubbock.

    Fryar didn’t much like Donald Trump at first, during the U.S. president’s 2016 campaign. He voted for Texas Senator Ted Cruz in the Republican primaries.

    Now, Fryar says he would go to war for Trump. He has joined the newly formed South Plains Patriots, a group of a few hundred members that includes a “reactionary” force of about three dozen - including Fryar and his son, Caleb - who conduct firearms training.

    Nothing will convince Fryar and many others here in Sundown - including the town’s mayor, another Patriots member - that Democrat Joe Biden won the Nov. 3 presidential election fairly. They believe Trump’s stream of election-fraud allegations and say they’re preparing for the possibility of a “civil war” with the American political left.

    “If President Trump comes out and says: ‘Guys, I have irrefutable proof of fraud, the courts won’t listen, and I’m now calling on Americans to take up arms,’ we would go,” said Fryar, wearing a button-down shirt, pressed slacks and a paisley tie during a recent interview at his office.

    The unshakable trust in Trump in this town of about 1,400 residents reflects a national phenomenon among many Republicans, despite the absence of evidence in a barrage of post-election lawsuits by the president and his allies. About half of Republicans polled by Reuters/Ipsos said Trump “rightfully won” the election but had it stolen from him in systemic fraud favoring Biden, according to a survey conducted between Nov. 13 and 17. Just 29% of Republicans said Biden rightfully won. Other polls since the election have reported that an even higher proportion - up to 80% - of Republicans trust Trump’s baseless fraud narrative.

    Trump’s legal onslaught has so far flopped, with judges quickly dismissing many cases and his lawyers dropping or withdrawing from others. None of the cases contain allegations - much less evidence - that are likely to invalidate enough votes to overturn the election, election experts say.

    And yet the election-theft claims are proving politically potent. All but a handful of Republican lawmakers have backed Trump’s fraud claims or stayed silent, effectively freezing the transition of power as the president refuses to concede. Trump has succeeded in sowing further public distrust in the media, which typically calls elections, and undermined citizens’ faith in the state and local election officials who underpin American democracy.

    In Reuters interviews with 50 Trump voters, all said they believed the election was rigged or in some way illegitimate. Of those, 20 said they would consider accepting Biden as their president, but only in light of proof that the election was conducted fairly. Most repeated debunked conspiracy theories espoused by Trump, Republican officials and conservative media claiming that millions of votes were dishonestly switched to Biden in key states by biased poll workers and hacked voting machines.

    Many voters interviewed by Reuters said they formed their opinions by watching emergent right-wing media outlets such as Newsmax and One American News Network that have amplified Trump’s fraud claims. Some have boycotted Fox News out of anger that the network called Biden the election winner and that some of its news anchors - in contrast to its opinion show stars - have been skeptical of Trump’s fraud allegations.

    “I just sent Fox News an email,” Fryar said, telling the network: “You’re the only news I’ve watched for the last six years, but I will not watch you anymore.”
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...
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  4. #14604
    Movember '11 Best Facial Hair, Best 'Tache Movember 2011Movember 2012Donor helgur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    More Cult45 news: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN2801D4

    SUNDOWN, Texas (Reuters) - Brett Fryar is a middle-class Republican. A 50-year-old chiropractor in this west Texas town, he owns a small business. He has two undergraduate degrees and a master’s degree, in organic chemistry. He attends Southcrest Baptist Church in nearby Lubbock.

    Fryar didn’t much like Donald Trump at first, during the U.S. president’s 2016 campaign. He voted for Texas Senator Ted Cruz in the Republican primaries.

    Now, Fryar says he would go to war for Trump. He has joined the newly formed South Plains Patriots, a group of a few hundred members that includes a “reactionary” force of about three dozen - including Fryar and his son, Caleb - who conduct firearms training.

    Nothing will convince Fryar and many others here in Sundown - including the town’s mayor, another Patriots member - that Democrat Joe Biden won the Nov. 3 presidential election fairly. They believe Trump’s stream of election-fraud allegations and say they’re preparing for the possibility of a “civil war” with the American political left.

    “If President Trump comes out and says: ‘Guys, I have irrefutable proof of fraud, the courts won’t listen, and I’m now calling on Americans to take up arms,’ we would go,” said Fryar, wearing a button-down shirt, pressed slacks and a paisley tie during a recent interview at his office.

    The unshakable trust in Trump in this town of about 1,400 residents reflects a national phenomenon among many Republicans, despite the absence of evidence in a barrage of post-election lawsuits by the president and his allies. About half of Republicans polled by Reuters/Ipsos said Trump “rightfully won” the election but had it stolen from him in systemic fraud favoring Biden, according to a survey conducted between Nov. 13 and 17. Just 29% of Republicans said Biden rightfully won. Other polls since the election have reported that an even higher proportion - up to 80% - of Republicans trust Trump’s baseless fraud narrative.

    Trump’s legal onslaught has so far flopped, with judges quickly dismissing many cases and his lawyers dropping or withdrawing from others. None of the cases contain allegations - much less evidence - that are likely to invalidate enough votes to overturn the election, election experts say.

    And yet the election-theft claims are proving politically potent. All but a handful of Republican lawmakers have backed Trump’s fraud claims or stayed silent, effectively freezing the transition of power as the president refuses to concede. Trump has succeeded in sowing further public distrust in the media, which typically calls elections, and undermined citizens’ faith in the state and local election officials who underpin American democracy.

    In Reuters interviews with 50 Trump voters, all said they believed the election was rigged or in some way illegitimate. Of those, 20 said they would consider accepting Biden as their president, but only in light of proof that the election was conducted fairly. Most repeated debunked conspiracy theories espoused by Trump, Republican officials and conservative media claiming that millions of votes were dishonestly switched to Biden in key states by biased poll workers and hacked voting machines.

    Many voters interviewed by Reuters said they formed their opinions by watching emergent right-wing media outlets such as Newsmax and One American News Network that have amplified Trump’s fraud claims. Some have boycotted Fox News out of anger that the network called Biden the election winner and that some of its news anchors - in contrast to its opinion show stars - have been skeptical of Trump’s fraud allegations.

    “I just sent Fox News an email,” Fryar said, telling the network: “You’re the only news I’ve watched for the last six years, but I will not watch you anymore.”
    I've seen a shift in tone on r/conservative where more and more people are bailing this crazy narrative, and I asked myself how people like Marlona or Miep are reacting to the latest Sidney Powell loonytrain. I guess this answers my question, really. SAD

  5. #14605
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Sadder than Ghouliani's hair malfunction.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...
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  6. #14606
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Sadder than Ghouliani's hair malfunction.
    Nothing is sadder than that.

  7. #14607
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I was being extremely sarcastic.

    Student debt forgiveness isn't a concession to the working class.
    I disagree







    Higher absolute numbers of debt are held by higher income households. And mid-high earners make up more than half of borrowers. But they generally won't be the people defaulting and lingering with 20k in debt for years. And that 20k debt is just gonna hamstring your future if you're just earning 40-50k instead of say 150k like a good little doctor or engineer.



    https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/whi...t-student-debt

    But the fact that a relatively small share of outstanding education debt is held by low-income households does not mean that these households have not borrowed. The bottom income quartile includes a larger share of the borrowers than of the debt. Seventeen percent of the households with education debt are in this income bracket. And although they may not hold large amounts of debt, 42 percent of those with education debt have an associate’s degree or less. For these households, even lower-than-average debt levels can cause financial strain.
    The largest share of borrowers went to community colleges or technical schools.

    The picture this paints is that higher-income households hold a higher absolute number of debt, but you're still seeing a lot of debt pile up at the bottom 50% because everyone has to get some kind of credential to stay relevant these days. And it hits those people much harder proportionately because their incomes are a lot lower. So what if they only got 10k in student loans vs. some doctor with six figs debt? That's gonna suck so much more if you only make $12/hr. Think about it, even barbers and hairdressers end up with student debt now...
    People with student debt end up as barbers and hairdressers.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  8. #14608
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I was being extremely sarcastic.

    Student debt forgiveness isn't a concession to the working class.
    I disagree







    Higher absolute numbers of debt are held by higher income households. And mid-high earners make up more than half of borrowers. But they generally won't be the people defaulting and lingering with 20k in debt for years. And that 20k debt is just gonna hamstring your future if you're just earning 40-50k instead of say 150k like a good little doctor or engineer.



    https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/whi...t-student-debt

    But the fact that a relatively small share of outstanding education debt is held by low-income households does not mean that these households have not borrowed. The bottom income quartile includes a larger share of the borrowers than of the debt. Seventeen percent of the households with education debt are in this income bracket. And although they may not hold large amounts of debt, 42 percent of those with education debt have an associate’s degree or less. For these households, even lower-than-average debt levels can cause financial strain.
    The largest share of borrowers went to community colleges or technical schools.

    The picture this paints is that higher-income households hold a higher absolute number of debt, but you're still seeing a lot of debt pile up at the bottom 50% because everyone has to get some kind of credential to stay relevant these days. And it hits those people much harder proportionately because their incomes are a lot lower. So what if they only got 10k in student loans vs. some doctor with six figs debt? That's gonna suck so much more if you only make $12/hr. Think about it, even barbers and hairdressers end up with student debt now...
    People with student debt end up as barbers and hairdressers.
    They also end up doing other things too.
    meh

  9. #14609

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    The US would solve a lot of problems with education if, like the European model, we tracked our students then made the govt pay for college tuition. Of course, tracking will never happen in the US.

    Strangely enough, colleges aren’t free in China (nor in much of Asia). I wonder what the rationale is since they are, after all, a communist country.

    Anyway, I don’t see how free colleges are a ‘concession’. Capital prefers an educated workforce.

  10. #14610
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    China isn't communist and hasn't been for a couple of decades.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  11. #14611
    evil edna's Avatar
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    True chinese communism has never been tried, but unironically

  12. #14612
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I was being extremely sarcastic.

    Student debt forgiveness isn't a concession to the working class.
    I disagree







    Higher absolute numbers of debt are held by higher income households. And mid-high earners make up more than half of borrowers. But they generally won't be the people defaulting and lingering with 20k in debt for years. And that 20k debt is just gonna hamstring your future if you're just earning 40-50k instead of say 150k like a good little doctor or engineer.



    https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/whi...t-student-debt

    But the fact that a relatively small share of outstanding education debt is held by low-income households does not mean that these households have not borrowed. The bottom income quartile includes a larger share of the borrowers than of the debt. Seventeen percent of the households with education debt are in this income bracket. And although they may not hold large amounts of debt, 42 percent of those with education debt have an associate’s degree or less. For these households, even lower-than-average debt levels can cause financial strain.
    The largest share of borrowers went to community colleges or technical schools.

    The picture this paints is that higher-income households hold a higher absolute number of debt, but you're still seeing a lot of debt pile up at the bottom 50% because everyone has to get some kind of credential to stay relevant these days. And it hits those people much harder proportionately because their incomes are a lot lower. So what if they only got 10k in student loans vs. some doctor with six figs debt? That's gonna suck so much more if you only make $12/hr. Think about it, even barbers and hairdressers end up with student debt now...
    People with student debt end up as barbers and hairdressers.
    wrong again

    The investment for occupational licensing and cosmetology/barber school is pretty hefty these days. Several thousand at least.

  13. #14613
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I was being extremely sarcastic.

    Student debt forgiveness isn't a concession to the working class.
    I disagree







    Higher absolute numbers of debt are held by higher income households. And mid-high earners make up more than half of borrowers. But they generally won't be the people defaulting and lingering with 20k in debt for years. And that 20k debt is just gonna hamstring your future if you're just earning 40-50k instead of say 150k like a good little doctor or engineer.



    https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/whi...t-student-debt

    But the fact that a relatively small share of outstanding education debt is held by low-income households does not mean that these households have not borrowed. The bottom income quartile includes a larger share of the borrowers than of the debt. Seventeen percent of the households with education debt are in this income bracket. And although they may not hold large amounts of debt, 42 percent of those with education debt have an associate’s degree or less. For these households, even lower-than-average debt levels can cause financial strain.
    The largest share of borrowers went to community colleges or technical schools.

    The picture this paints is that higher-income households hold a higher absolute number of debt, but you're still seeing a lot of debt pile up at the bottom 50% because everyone has to get some kind of credential to stay relevant these days. And it hits those people much harder proportionately because their incomes are a lot lower. So what if they only got 10k in student loans vs. some doctor with six figs debt? That's gonna suck so much more if you only make $12/hr. Think about it, even barbers and hairdressers end up with student debt now...
    People with student debt end up as barbers and hairdressers.
    wrong again

    The investment for occupational licensing and cosmetology/barber school is pretty hefty these days. Several thousand at least.
    Keckers don't know about having to get licensed to be a beauty technician.

    https://www.barbercosmo.ca.gov
    meh

  14. #14614
    Lowa [NSN]'s Avatar
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    Canceling/forgiving higher education student debt is an utopia. Best (of) Europe has free education but...its also not free.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarminic View Post
    I would create a dragon made out of vaginas. Then I would create a dragon made out of dicks. Then I would have them fight to the death.

  15. #14615
    Totally Not Larkonnis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowa [NSN] View Post
    Canceling/forgiving higher education student debt is an utopia. Best (of) Europe has free education but...its also not free.
    Bumping into the US thread with a UK opinion...

    I don't disagree with the system the UK has at the moment (only the implementation). You go to university, you get a loan from the Government and pay it back at a rate of 9% of your salary above £xxk per year. The problem is that there's now a large amount of commercialisation within the UK higher education 'industry' and it seems almost anyone can get in on the game. The UK has one of the highest new graduate:graduate jobs ratios going. Repealing of maintenance grants and increase of tuition fees to £9k per year didn't reduce the number of applicants either.

    From my understanding in the US federal subsidies have led to vast inflation of college tuition fees etc etc.


  16. #14616
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...
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  17. #14617
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowa [NSN] View Post
    Canceling/forgiving higher education student debt is an utopia. Best (of) Europe has free education but...its also not free.
    Imagine wasting taxes on education rather than bombing sandpeople lmao.

  18. #14618
    Keckers's Avatar
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    The states need to sort out their education system way further up river than universities.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  19. #14619
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    While USA education costs are out of whack (like USA healthcare costs... and anything other than gas at the pump prices...) someone who choses to major in "Early mediaeval African wooden mask making" and accumulates $50,000 in debt deserves to be indentured servant till grave. These are not people appearing from nowhere without any prior knowledge about the system. When you Murcians choose your university and your majors, you know very well how much it will cost you and what are actual employment chances and salaries for the profession you are choosing. "Follow your dreams" only applies from people from wealthy families willing to fund their foolishness who can afford to chase their dreams, for the commoner, you chose education based on can you live on it.

  20. #14620
    NoirAvlaa's Avatar
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    How many people are taking those degrees?
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Also that didn't sound like abloo bloo to me, PM me and we can agree on a meeting spot and settle this with queensberry rules, that's a serious offer btw. I've been a member of this community since 2005 and i've never met a more toxic individual.

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