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Thread: (UK EURO THREAD) UK POLITICS MK2

  1. #14781

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodj Blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    Then do the only thing you can do; refuse to vote for a party that doesn't promise to change the electoral system.
    What incentive does a party with a chance of winning under the current system have to change the system?
    If they keep losing and can't get enough votes without changing the system, then they'll be incentivised to change the system. Labour did promise in 1997 and reneged, so they'd have to offer some pretty serious assurances to get my vote ever again, but them's the breaks.

  2. #14782
    Keckers's Avatar
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    And in the meantime we live get to live in perpetual tory hellworld.

    Well at least we were right about centrists after all...
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  3. #14783

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    And in the meantime we live get to live in perpetual tory hellworld.

    Well at least we were right about centrists after all...
    I'd have thought somebody desperate to get Labour as many votes as possible (because lord knows they need them after Michael Foot Mk II) wouldn't be so keen to alienate the very people they need to attract.

  4. #14784
    Keckers's Avatar
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    If all it takes for people to vote tory is lefties poking fun at them online for enabling horrendous tory governments they were going to find another excuse to vote tory anyway.

    The pandemic has made politics very real to people who previously thought they were unaffected by it. I just hope the labour party has a strong platform to attract them when the next election comes up.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  5. #14785
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    If all it takes for people to vote tory is lefties poking fun at them online for enabling horrendous tory governments they were going to find another excuse to vote tory anyway.

    The pandemic has made politics very real to people who previously thought they were unaffected by it. I just hope the labour party has a strong platform to attract them when the next election comes up.
    Strong post

    We all know we get Tory government forever because England is essentially chock full of cunts, thick cunts and racists

  6. #14786
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    And in the meantime we live get to live in perpetual tory hellworld.

    Well at least we were right about centrists after all...
    Strong irony more like.
    Quote Originally Posted by cucaldvida View Post
    ...suck on the devices of the callow people...

  7. #14787

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    And the so-called "Leader of the Oppostion" has decided to abstain on another bill, this time the one giving MI5 more powers

  8. #14788

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    If all it takes for people to vote tory is lefties poking fun at them online for enabling horrendous tory governments they were going to find another excuse to vote tory anyway.
    It's almost like you have zero understanding of anything that isn't completely black and white, perhaps you've spent too long trapped in this system that you can't see what it's done to you.

  9. #14789
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    If all it takes for people to vote tory is lefties poking fun at them online for enabling horrendous tory governments they were going to find another excuse to vote tory anyway.
    It's almost like you have zero understanding of anything that isn't completely black and white, perhaps you've spent too long trapped in this system that you can't see what it's done to you.
    Or you're in a privileged position where it does not really matter much if Tories or Labour are in power? Nothing substantial will change in your life regardless.

    (I don't know, just suggesting alternative interpretations.)

    Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point. - Blaise Pascal, Pensées, 277

  10. #14790

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    I think one of the issues is that many feel nothing substantial has changed (for the better) regardless of who is in power since the 80s.

  11. #14791
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    If all it takes for people to vote tory is lefties poking fun at them online for enabling horrendous tory governments they were going to find another excuse to vote tory anyway.
    It's almost like you have zero understanding of anything that isn't completely black and white, perhaps you've spent too long trapped in this system that you can't see what it's done to you.
    Not having a tory government is more important than voting reform. We will never have electoral reform under the tories, we might have electoral reform under Labour.

    I'm not a single issue voter, that seems to be the opposite of someone who can't understand anything that isn't completely black and white.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  12. #14792

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timaios View Post
    Or you're in a privileged position where it does not really matter much if Tories or Labour are in power? Nothing substantial will change in your life regardless.

    (I don't know, just suggesting alternative interpretations.)
    I don't particularly like the Tories or Labour, but would prefer a Starmer-style Labour government over a Tory one. I thought a Corbyn government would have been a rather dangerous thing considering they were promising to dismantle all ISPs amongst other dangerous things. That's not to say that a Tory government has not been harmful in other ways, but I didn't vote for either of them.

    Above all that though, I think the system is fundamentally broken and is causing more harm to the country as time goes by through accelerating or causing (depending on who you ask) the polarisation of the country and thus I won't vote for a party that won't change it. I utterly abhor the way the system encourages voting against the incumbent rather than for a candidate.

  13. #14793
    Super Chillerator Global Moderator teds :D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    If all it takes for people to vote tory is lefties poking fun at them online for enabling horrendous tory governments they were going to find another excuse to vote tory anyway.
    It's almost like you have zero understanding of anything that isn't completely black and white, perhaps you've spent too long trapped in this system that you can't see what it's done to you.
    Not having a tory government is more important than voting reform. We will never have electoral reform under the tories, we might have electoral reform under Labour.

    I'm not a single issue voter, that seems to be the opposite of someone who can't understand anything that isn't completely black and white.
    took you a while to get to this point with the trump or biden posts

  14. #14794

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    We will never have electoral reform under the tories, we might have electoral reform under Labour.
    Incorrect. Corbyn's Labour at least promised to form a committee to look at PR in 2017, they removed even that weak sauce in 2019. So neither party was offering to change the system.

  15. #14795
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancehot View Post
    I think one of the issues is that many feel nothing substantial has changed (for the better) regardless of who is in power since the 80s.
    Erm, New Labour did a load fairly substantial shit in the 00s if you were low income, a pensioner, disabled, in education, a parent, a victim of crime, a health worker, a public sector employee...
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  16. #14796

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I'm not a single issue voter, that seems to be the opposite of someone who can't understand anything that isn't completely black and white.
    One other thing, blank and white does not imply single issue.

  17. #14797
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    Quote Originally Posted by teds :D View Post

    took you a while to get to this point with the trump or biden posts
    The difference here is I trust the Labour party to actually implement policy which benefits society. I don't see Biden as anything other than a speed bump to America's descent into fascism.

    Labour is still an active political force, the Democrats 'act' entirely passively.



    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    We will never have electoral reform under the tories, we might have electoral reform under Labour.
    Incorrect. Corbyn's Labour at least promised to form a committee to look at PR in 2017, they removed even that weak sauce in 2019. So neither party was offering to change the system.
    And the tories never even mention it.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  18. #14798
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Capitano View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    I'm not a single issue voter, that seems to be the opposite of someone who can't understand anything that isn't completely black and white.
    One other thing, blank and white does not imply single issue.
    That doesn't make it a less weird accusation. I'm a far left socialist who actively supports a centre left establishment political party on a variety of issues. There's at least 50 shades of grey in there which have to swallow
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  19. #14799

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    And the tories never even mention it.
    Labour promised it and then decided not to deliver, then ignored it for 15 years, then promised to maybe think about it and then decided against doing even that. That's not a might, it's a stringing along.

  20. #14800
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    The idea that any of the two major parties will ever enable a change of the voting system to proportional representation seems entirely fanciful to me. The only way to get there would be to create a single purpose political vehicle and then to get a majority of the population to vote for that, which also seems entirely unrealistic.

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