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Thread: Dos Dedos Mis Amigos (USA Civil Unrest Thread)

  1. #2801
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Militias wouldn’t “loot” nice areas. They’d just disappear undesirables from those areas.

  2. #2802
    Liare's Avatar
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    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  3. #2803

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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    When you as a suburbanite think protesters are more dangerous than right wing miltias you are a fucking problem.
    Well as a suburbanite you might think those militia's will be on your side as you are a suburbanite.
    'Clearly they wont ever come for me' said the person who never read a topic relevant history book ever.
    Misunderstands the conservative movement and who's gonna be protected by the law in their ideal world. If militias did try to loot nice areas, Strykers and Bradleys would be immediately deployed to mow them down.

    The state has very little incentive to stop things in areas where the people getting hurt are mostly $0 asset serfs. But they'll stomp you to dust if you threaten the trillions of dollars in real estate that's locked up within those houses.
    Do you know the phrase ' The revolution eats its own children' ? That is what will happen, purity test will come and even having 3 times a test, e.g female, black, lesbian. wont be enough to cull you. This is history, not of course exactly like the above but you can change names.
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  4. #2804
    Venec's Avatar
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    Plenty of revolutions that didn't eat their children tho. It's a stupid fucking phrase uttered by the ruling classes to scare us into not wanting change.

  5. #2805
    DerWish's Avatar
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    When the apartheid tried to convince Mandela (in prison at that time) to stop protesting they said: this is not the right way, not the right time, more discussion is the only way, change cannot happen overnight.

    Look it up if you don't believe it.

  6. #2806
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    And Mandelas revolution to abolish Apartheid ended up resulting in the country with the most economic inequality in the world, so maybe stop using that charlatan as an example ok?

    Talk about Martin Luther King JR instead, who took a bullet for being a socialist.

  7. #2807
    Liare's Avatar
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    how is this even going to work ?

    Last edited by Liare; September 2 2020 at 01:02:31 PM.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  8. #2808
    Duckslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    When you as a suburbanite think protesters are more dangerous than right wing miltias you are a fucking problem.
    Well as a suburbanite you might think those militia's will be on your side as you are a suburbanite.
    'Clearly they wont ever come for me' said the person who never read a topic relevant history book ever.
    Misunderstands the conservative movement and who's gonna be protected by the law in their ideal world. If militias did try to loot nice areas, Strykers and Bradleys would be immediately deployed to mow them down.

    The state has very little incentive to stop things in areas where the people getting hurt are mostly $0 asset serfs. But they'll stomp you to dust if you threaten the trillions of dollars in real estate that's locked up within those houses.
    Do you know the phrase ' The revolution eats its own children' ? That is what will happen, purity test will come and even having 3 times a test, e.g female, black, lesbian. wont be enough to cull you. This is history, not of course exactly like the above but you can change names.
    Jokes on them i can self identify myself as anything nowadays

  9. #2809

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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    When you as a suburbanite think protesters are more dangerous than right wing miltias you are a fucking problem.
    Well as a suburbanite you might think those militia's will be on your side as you are a suburbanite.
    'Clearly they wont ever come for me' said the person who never read a topic relevant history book ever.
    Misunderstands the conservative movement and who's gonna be protected by the law in their ideal world. If militias did try to loot nice areas, Strykers and Bradleys would be immediately deployed to mow them down.

    The state has very little incentive to stop things in areas where the people getting hurt are mostly $0 asset serfs. But they'll stomp you to dust if you threaten the trillions of dollars in real estate that's locked up within those houses.
    You think Trump is coming to defend liberal elites when their mansions get assaulted by hillbillies with ar-15's ? Or journalists? Or academics?

    I think you misunderstand this alt-right movement.

  10. #2810
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    Yeah I remember after the election trying to discuss things with right wing die hards. Having an open mind but being met with fox news speaking points, bullshit about emails and bengazi, endless bullshit about democrats raising taxes and just general racist crap meant the discussion was me listening to someone that had stopped using reality as a place to exist in.

    I dont disagree with the sentiment of your post Alistair, I mean i think wearing body armor without a weapon isn't a. Issue, but yes we should still strive for a civil society. The facts however show militia and hardliner factions, often right wing in idealogy, have been and will continue abandoning such efforts and letting someone roll over you doesnt yield a peaceful outcome. Ever.
    Fair enough.

    I appreciate when I am jousting the proverbial windmills here at FHC. The idea of revolutionary violence and violent protest being righteous and the end of all capitalism is very popular here, I have no arguments that will change that.

    If you all believe that violence is the key to a future solution, so be it. If I am naive to believe in discourse, discussion, mind changing, civil society, working within laws and the system, the political process, political power and education, again, so be it.

    I guess I am part of the problem and always will be. I don't really (honestly, no bait, no tricks) know what else to say.


  11. #2811
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MortyM View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    When you as a suburbanite think protesters are more dangerous than right wing miltias you are a fucking problem.
    Well as a suburbanite you might think those militia's will be on your side as you are a suburbanite.
    'Clearly they wont ever come for me' said the person who never read a topic relevant history book ever.
    Misunderstands the conservative movement and who's gonna be protected by the law in their ideal world. If militias did try to loot nice areas, Strykers and Bradleys would be immediately deployed to mow them down.

    The state has very little incentive to stop things in areas where the people getting hurt are mostly $0 asset serfs. But they'll stomp you to dust if you threaten the trillions of dollars in real estate that's locked up within those houses.
    You think Trump is coming to defend liberal elites when their mansions get assaulted by hillbillies with ar-15's ? Or journalists? Or academics?

    I think you misunderstand this alt-right movement.
    yeah that's a hilarious description of American politics

    The Trump base is not even hillbillies, it's the suburbs. Even the alt-right are way closer to petit-bourgeois than anyone wants to admit. If you have the money for a 80k truck and a long gun with all the attachments, you're not one of the mountain people.

    Also one of the fundamental issues with policing is that cops also live in the suburbs instead of the cities they police, so you really don't understand the divide going on here. This is true for Portland, it's true for Minneapolis, and it's even true for places like New York City (50% of the force lives in the Staten Island or Long Island suburbs)

  12. #2812
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    I highly doubt everyone feels the same way about the inevitability of violent revolution. I figure we are pretty fucked, but still support change within the system. It seems increasingly difficult in our broken, partisan system, but I imagine eventually one party may have diminished our standing sufficiently to get rejected by the electorate. It is just a matter of just how fucked we will be before this happens.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  13. #2813
    Jack Coutu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    I highly doubt everyone feels the same way about the inevitability of violent revolution. I figure we are pretty fucked, but still support change within the system. It seems increasingly difficult in our broken, partisan system, but I imagine eventually one party may have diminished our standing sufficiently to get rejected by the electorate. It is just a matter of just how fucked we will be before this happens.
    Pretty sure it's farther along than you imagine. One party is actively and openly yelling about suppression of votes while the other is powerless to do anything about it. Democratic leadership even if it wasn't inept and old would have little to do against Trumpist conservatives.

    Alistair violence is already here. Its been happening and will continue. Many of the hardliners on the right aren't gonna stop because no one fought back. They may yell it on Fox News but most protesters are peaceful so targets are usually peaceful protesters. This isnt about resorting to violence, its about not letting innocent people get mpwed down or harrased away from their rights. I could really care less what happens to some assailed that can't be bothered to counter March a protester without arming themselves. Protesters armed themselves to defend against police and secret police in Portland. They didn't get knives and guns, they got shields and masks.

    If you think the milita boys are doing the same, it might suggest why you think violence is not the answer. It's here, probably until the elections, probably after. How do you propose getting the most out of the situation we are in now, without it spiraling. I dont think 80 percent of Americans will want to start fighting but nothing is started by 80 percent of the population.

  14. #2814
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Fair enough.

    I appreciate when I am jousting the proverbial windmills here at FHC. The idea of revolutionary violence and violent protest being righteous and the end of all capitalism is very popular here, I have no arguments that will change that.

    If you all believe that violence is the key to a future solution, so be it. If I am naive to believe in discourse, discussion, mind changing, civil society, working within laws and the system, the political process, political power and education, again, so be it.

    I guess I am part of the problem and always will be. I don't really (honestly, no bait, no tricks) know what else to say.
    if protesting injustice is not righteous, then what is a righteous cause ?
    i would prefer living a world where it was possible to change society towards the vision of a better tomorrow without the usage of violence, but we don't live in a world where those that hold that power give it willingly or are even willing to negotiate in the first place. every concession gained since the dawn of the industrial age have been bought in blood, sweat and tears. at no junction have the betterment of the working class happened without those ingredients. "Civil society" builds on an assumption of equality and fairness between all participants, this is not and never has been the case, to play by those rules is to concede the bounds of the game, to put that better tomorrow out of reach forever precisely because the bounds aren't defined by you, but by those that hold power over you.

    what's happening in Portland and in cities across America is people are stepping outside the bounds of that game and demanding a more just society, they're not demanding perfect justice or some other ideal, there are fractured visions of what that might be but it's not really important, the concession that something is deeply broken in America's society is. if you can make that concession you're going to be ending up on the right side of history, that's all there is to it Alistair.

    but it's not a concession the political elite on either side of the aisle can make, it's certainly not a concession "middle America" seems willing to make and it's obviously something right-wing America is willing to risk civil war over. yet it's such a small thing in the grand scheme of things.

    i am "hooked in" to a lot of the radical left media outlets and the like both in Europe and the US, and i can tell you that elements the "radical left" in America is preparing for civil war, they're arming up, stockpiling guns and ammunition but they, consistently, do not want this. they're not chomping at the bit for murdering militia men the way you see half the right-wing twittersphere baying for blood now. they're expecting the jackboot to come down this year, probably before the election, best case in the muddled aftermath of it.

    and you know what else ? they're expecting to lose, because there really isn't much in the way of nationwide organisation, what militia like groups there are tend to be small, and there really aren't even that many radical leftists in the first place, they're focusing on protecting their homes from roaming right wing militias, like we saw in Portland Friday, except with machineguns instead of paintball guns and they're expecting to having to do this while a flat out fascist police state is trying to round them up for, whatever euphemism they're gonna settle on when the time comes.

    of course, anybody who's read Mao, or for that sake FM 3-24 that condenses the matter down and presents it from a occupiers viewpoint, can see the writing on the wall long-term due to American policing tactics.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  15. #2815
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    If you have the money for a 80k truck and a long gun with all the attachments, you're not one of the mountain people
    I wouldn't think I'd have to introduce you to how credit and bankruptcy work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    Alistair violence is already here. Its been happening and will continue. Many of the hardliners on the right aren't gonna stop because no one fought back......Protesters armed themselves to defend against police and secret police in Portland.
    And the Police are what they are because those they interact with have more guns than some Armies. And since the 2nd amendment isn't going to be repealed, round and round we go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    If you think the milita boys are doing the same, it might suggest why you think violence is not the answer.
    I have no support for the "militia boys" or their obsession with guns or their escalation or their racism or their hunger for conflict.

    With that said, I can understand a desire to do something when you see scenes of American cities on fire and innocent people burned out of everythign they own and have built. Something that I don;t think people here at FH C understand, given the "fuck um', they got insurance, and if they don't, they should have" rhetoric.

    Since standing in opposition to it is bad, I guess flight is all that is left. Pretty sure there is a term for that from previous riot eras....../sarcasm

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    How do you propose getting the most out of the situation we are in now, without it spiraling. I dont think 80 percent of Americans will want to start fighting but nothing is started by 80 percent of the population.
    Doesn't matter, it's clear violence is the only solution. So violence we shall have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    if protesting injustice is not righteous, then what is a righteous cause ?
    Please do not misquote me. Protest, the free assembly of peaceful people gathering to air their grievances to their Government, is absolutely righteous (or at least as righteous as the complaint), and is a cornerstone right I very much respect.

    My objection is violence, not protest, no making oneself heard. But clearly, the belief here is that people are never heard if they're not violent, so again, violence we shall have then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    i would prefer living a world where it was possible to change society towards the vision of a better tomorrow without the usage of violence, but we don't live in a world where those that hold that power give it willingly or are even willing to negotiate in the first place.
    As long as the choice to just be violent is available, you will never, ever live in that world. Even if you achieved it, those who disagree with you would also say "fuck the system, it failed me" and resort to violence as well. So violence is all we'll ever have in a world where nothing comes without violence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    every concession gained since the dawn of the industrial age have been bought in blood, sweat and tears. at no junction have the betterment of the working class happened without those ingredients......
    So since nothign ever comes without violence, we'll always have political violence, and the only question is if one agrees with it or not then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    what's happening in Portland and in cities across America is people are stepping outside the bounds of that game and demanding a more just society, they're not demanding perfect justice or some other ideal, there are fractured visions of what that might be but it's not really important, the concession that something is deeply broken in America's society is. if you can make that concession you're going to be ending up on the right side of history, that's all there is to it Alistair.
    But it's not enough to support it within the system. You must also join the violence or you are as bad as those who opposed it in the first place. And it's not enough to support part of their issue. You must support all of it, even economic issues, or you are the enemy as well. I get it mate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    but it's not a concession the political elite on either side of the aisle can make, it's certainly not a concession "middle America" seems willing to make and it's obviously something right-wing America is willing to risk civil war over. yet it's such a small thing in the grand scheme of things.
    Then it looks like we're going to have a Civil War. You'll forgive me, I'm going to opt out. I want no part of it, and I have the options to ensure I can escape it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    i am "hooked in" to a lot of the radical left media outlets and the like both in Europe and the US, and i can tell you that elements the "radical left" in America is preparing for civil war, they're arming up, stockpiling guns and ammunition but they, consistently, do not want this. they're not chomping at the bit for murdering militia men the way you see half the right-wing twittersphere baying for blood now. they're expecting the jackboot to come down this year, probably before the election, best case in the muddled aftermath of it.
    I'm sure that's what they tell themselves. Same thing the righties tell themselves. Round and round we go.....we've learned absolutely nothing as a species.

    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    and you know what else ? they're expecting to lose, because there really isn't much in the way of nationwide organisation, what militia like groups there are tend to be small, and there really aren't even that many radical leftists in the first place, they're focusing on protecting their homes from roaming right wing militias, like we saw in Portland Friday, except with machineguns instead of paintball guns and they're expecting to having to do this while a flat out fascist police state is trying to round them up for, whatever euphemism they're gonna settle on when the time comes.
    If there is a Civil War, we're all going to lose. Maybe some generation to come will benefit, but all of us alive today, we're going to lose, some of big.

    Forgive me, I'm done. I don't have the stomach for this anymore, so I'm gonna take a break for a while.


  16. #2816
    Venec's Avatar
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    You don't get to opt out of a civil war. Besides, we're all going to have drink what the mainstream politician fucks have been brewing since the 80s cause what is happening in America is slowly happening worldwide mate.

  17. #2817
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    how is this even going to work ?

    Remember: it's always projection with these shitfuckers
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  18. #2818
    Movember 2012 I Legionnaire's Avatar
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  19. #2819

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Plenty of revolutions that didn't eat their children tho. It's a stupid fucking phrase uttered by the ruling classes to scare us into not wanting change.
    O' really my friend? name a few please because my uni history lesson said it was a solid >90% from the top of my head.

    If its way below my education was way lacking and i will say it was wrong all fine.

    Can we start with the revolutions of the last 100 years please.
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  20. #2820
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    Plenty of revolutions that didn't eat their children tho. It's a stupid fucking phrase uttered by the ruling classes to scare us into not wanting change.
    O' really my friend? name a few please because my uni history lesson said it was a solid >90% from the top of my head.

    If its way below my education was way lacking and i will say it was wrong all fine.

    Can we start with the revolutions of the last 100 years please.


    Last edited by Approaching Walrus; September 2 2020 at 10:43:11 PM.

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