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Thread: PLAGUE: Not even primates are safe

  1. #5441
    Pegging Specialist Donor indi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    indi, your thoughts on the whole vaccine thingy?
    Ehm, I do know some people in the business of oversight on medication on the European market. Generally speaking, I would trust anything that complies with the European regulations: they are severe. That is not to say complications could not arise in certain groups. By the time they have been tested, they will have been tested on tens of thousands of people. But maybe not on people with very specific diseases and it may not be enough to catch the 1 in a million allergic reaction. To me it seems like an acceptable risk, as all vaccinations on the market here are. The Dutch infrastructure to administer vaccines is well practiced, they are well capable of spotting any adverse reaction and dealing with it.* Europe has some of the strongest protections in place of consumers and people. If it passes here, they did what they could to make it safe. In the words of those people I know: it's Olympics level companies like Pfizer are doing now, very impressive how far they got in a short time.

    Would I let them inject me with that shit they produced in Russia, where they skipped just about all trial phases? Not so much. I would probably take my chances with the virus itself.

    Generally speaking I do hope people know that it won't be the Holy Grail. There is a reason I get a yearly flu shot and I only needed a few shots against the measles. Also, it will be above Olympics level to produce it in the quantities needed and then get it to the people. So hello, another 8 months of this, alas.

    A few things I wish more people would take into consideration. The virus leaves damage, sometimes even in people who never knew they were sick (shows up on scans afterwards). Not everyone actually gets better - I know of several people personally who remain fatigued and have trouble with breathing, even 5 months later. We don't know if they will ever be 'normal' again. Heart issues also happen in previously healthy people - yes, I also know of two cases with that personally. With some of these I know they had no underlying conditions and were fit. It causes neurological symptoms. I don't know if people fully understand how scary that is. I know how awful it is to know something happens in your brain. I also know what it's like not to be able to use one of your senses fully. Apart from the annoyance, it's scary on a visceral level. Generally I say this most of all to indicate this is also economic damage: people who will not be able to work again fully and who will always need a degree of assistance from society. I don't want to plead for measures only from the point of view of healthcare in a country, but this also needs to be a part of the conversation.

    PS I can't wait to just.. go to a festival again and be around people.

    *Source is me. They figured out quickly when I was a little indi that I had an allergic reaction to a vaccine. Turns out, I am allergic to eggs (many vaccines are made in eggs). We found that out way before I could ever eat an egg. It's not a big deal for me, antihistamines and sometimes staying behind for 30 minutes and we're done.

  2. #5442
    Keckers's Avatar
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    >mfw companies will use covid as an excuse to play people less because it makes them less productive in the long term
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  3. #5443
    Pegging Specialist Donor indi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    >mfw companies will use covid as an excuse to play people less because it makes them less productive in the long term
    Well, they are businesses and not charities. You can demand a certain level of providing for the employee (and here in socialist Dutchlands that is certainly legislated), but if someone can work 4 hours instead of 8, you can't expect a company to pay the same salary. Companies != society.

  4. #5444
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    >wages are currently based on productivity
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  5. #5445
    Donor Shiodome's Avatar
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    I listen to the BMJ podcast (British Medical Journal), and they've been raising concerns that the initial planning documentation the community practices have received to carry out mass vaccinations just are not practically possible. The gist being that they are to be asked to run vaccinations 8am-8pm every day, but to do that there simply won't be staff available for normal business (i.e. providing healthcare). There's a shortage of healthcare professionals as it is, they can't just magically double their staffing levels at short notice, especially as there doesn't seem to be funding in place to pay the extra people needed. Just typical governmental wishful thinking.

    Will probably end up with single purpose mass vaccination centres in school halls etc. which is what I assumed would be the route anyway, god knows why anyone would think you can vaccinate an entire population via GP surgeries and hospitals.

  6. #5446
    Pegging Specialist Donor indi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiodome View Post
    I listen to the BMJ podcast (British Medical Journal), and they've been raising concerns that the initial planning documentation the community practices have received to carry out mass vaccinations just are not practically possible. The gist being that they are to be asked to run vaccinations 8am-8pm every day, but to do that there simply won't be staff available for normal business (i.e. providing healthcare). There's a shortage of healthcare professionals as it is, they can't just magically double their staffing levels at short notice, especially as there doesn't seem to be funding in place to pay the extra people needed. Just typical governmental wishful thinking.

    Will probably end up with single purpose mass vaccination centres in school halls etc. which is what I assumed would be the route anyway, god knows why anyone would think you can vaccinate an entire population via GP surgeries and hospitals.
    Ours said roll-out for the entire population would take up to a year. Seems more realistic.

  7. #5447
    Totally Not Larkonnis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiodome View Post
    I listen to the BMJ podcast (British Medical Journal), and they've been raising concerns that the initial planning documentation the community practices have received to carry out mass vaccinations just are not practically possible. The gist being that they are to be asked to run vaccinations 8am-8pm every day, but to do that there simply won't be staff available for normal business (i.e. providing healthcare). There's a shortage of healthcare professionals as it is, they can't just magically double their staffing levels at short notice, especially as there doesn't seem to be funding in place to pay the extra people needed. Just typical governmental wishful thinking.

    Will probably end up with single purpose mass vaccination centres in school halls etc. which is what I assumed would be the route anyway, god knows why anyone would think you can vaccinate an entire population via GP surgeries and hospitals.
    I heard a figure of a million a week in the UK being touted on the radio, the suggestion was that this isn't far off the level of flu vaccines delivered... but there might need to be a bit more close observation of COVID vaccine recipients due to potential side effects.

    I'll be happy to take it. As I've said before I'm not particularly comfortable with the boy having it (but that may not be required looking at the UK government's deployment plan).


  8. #5448
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Our government makes policy for the next morning's headlines, not for next year's reality
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  9. #5449

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    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiodome View Post
    I listen to the BMJ podcast (British Medical Journal), and they've been raising concerns that the initial planning documentation the community practices have received to carry out mass vaccinations just are not practically possible. The gist being that they are to be asked to run vaccinations 8am-8pm every day, but to do that there simply won't be staff available for normal business (i.e. providing healthcare). There's a shortage of healthcare professionals as it is, they can't just magically double their staffing levels at short notice, especially as there doesn't seem to be funding in place to pay the extra people needed. Just typical governmental wishful thinking.

    Will probably end up with single purpose mass vaccination centres in school halls etc. which is what I assumed would be the route anyway, god knows why anyone would think you can vaccinate an entire population via GP surgeries and hospitals.
    I heard a figure of a million a week in the UK being touted on the radio, the suggestion was that this isn't far off the level of flu vaccines delivered... but there might need to be a bit more close observation of COVID vaccine recipients due to potential side effects.

    I'll be happy to take it. As I've said before I'm not particularly comfortable with the boy having it (but that may not be required looking at the UK government's deployment plan).
    Also the current vacines require a booster pretty soon after the first shot, so if you can administer a million a week that is 500k "processed" a week. Germany on the other hand estimated that they could maybe nation-wide vaccinate 60k a day, thus taking about 4 years for nation wide coverage.

  10. #5450
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    If they're smart, they'll start with a flu-vaccine style campaign targeting vulnerable people and people who come into the most contact with said vulnerable people before rolling it out nationwide.

    They're not smart, though, so...
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  11. #5451
    Totally Not Larkonnis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiodome View Post
    I listen to the BMJ podcast (British Medical Journal), and they've been raising concerns that the initial planning documentation the community practices have received to carry out mass vaccinations just are not practically possible. The gist being that they are to be asked to run vaccinations 8am-8pm every day, but to do that there simply won't be staff available for normal business (i.e. providing healthcare). There's a shortage of healthcare professionals as it is, they can't just magically double their staffing levels at short notice, especially as there doesn't seem to be funding in place to pay the extra people needed. Just typical governmental wishful thinking.

    Will probably end up with single purpose mass vaccination centres in school halls etc. which is what I assumed would be the route anyway, god knows why anyone would think you can vaccinate an entire population via GP surgeries and hospitals.
    I heard a figure of a million a week in the UK being touted on the radio, the suggestion was that this isn't far off the level of flu vaccines delivered... but there might need to be a bit more close observation of COVID vaccine recipients due to potential side effects.

    I'll be happy to take it. As I've said before I'm not particularly comfortable with the boy having it (but that may not be required looking at the UK government's deployment plan).
    Also the current vacines require a booster pretty soon after the first shot, so if you can administer a million a week that is 500k "processed" a week. Germany on the other hand estimated that they could maybe nation-wide vaccinate 60k a day, thus taking about 4 years for nation wide coverage.
    Do you need 'nationwide' coverage?


  12. #5452

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    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiodome View Post
    I listen to the BMJ podcast (British Medical Journal), and they've been raising concerns that the initial planning documentation the community practices have received to carry out mass vaccinations just are not practically possible. The gist being that they are to be asked to run vaccinations 8am-8pm every day, but to do that there simply won't be staff available for normal business (i.e. providing healthcare). There's a shortage of healthcare professionals as it is, they can't just magically double their staffing levels at short notice, especially as there doesn't seem to be funding in place to pay the extra people needed. Just typical governmental wishful thinking.

    Will probably end up with single purpose mass vaccination centres in school halls etc. which is what I assumed would be the route anyway, god knows why anyone would think you can vaccinate an entire population via GP surgeries and hospitals.
    I heard a figure of a million a week in the UK being touted on the radio, the suggestion was that this isn't far off the level of flu vaccines delivered... but there might need to be a bit more close observation of COVID vaccine recipients due to potential side effects.

    I'll be happy to take it. As I've said before I'm not particularly comfortable with the boy having it (but that may not be required looking at the UK government's deployment plan).
    Also the current vacines require a booster pretty soon after the first shot, so if you can administer a million a week that is 500k "processed" a week. Germany on the other hand estimated that they could maybe nation-wide vaccinate 60k a day, thus taking about 4 years for nation wide coverage.
    Do you need 'nationwide' coverage?
    Gross oversimplification:

    If you're going to achieve anything resembling herd immunity and wipe out the virus, yes. The anti-vaxxers brought back the measles without having to reduce overall vaccination rates by that much.

    Granted, that mostly happened by having a significant impact within a smaller community rather than a smaller nationwide impact, but that doesn't really change things. There are always going to be pockets where you don't get the same degree of coverage. But if most places are seeing vaccination rates in the high 90% range, then that random retarded pocket that's only 50% vaccinated can't do as much damage as if your nationwide rate is in the 80s.

    In the US, getting enough vaccines made and administered to cover everyone is going to take a while. What I'm hearing is that the initial doses will likely go to frontline workers so that they'll stop dropping dead, and then to high risk individuals like pregnant women and the elderly. I'm kinda high risk (immunocompromised) and my wife is pregnant, so there's a chance we'd be in line for vaccines at that point.
    Quarantined and loving life.

  13. #5453
    Totally Not Larkonnis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steckersaurus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiodome View Post
    I listen to the BMJ podcast (British Medical Journal), and they've been raising concerns that the initial planning documentation the community practices have received to carry out mass vaccinations just are not practically possible. The gist being that they are to be asked to run vaccinations 8am-8pm every day, but to do that there simply won't be staff available for normal business (i.e. providing healthcare). There's a shortage of healthcare professionals as it is, they can't just magically double their staffing levels at short notice, especially as there doesn't seem to be funding in place to pay the extra people needed. Just typical governmental wishful thinking.

    Will probably end up with single purpose mass vaccination centres in school halls etc. which is what I assumed would be the route anyway, god knows why anyone would think you can vaccinate an entire population via GP surgeries and hospitals.
    I heard a figure of a million a week in the UK being touted on the radio, the suggestion was that this isn't far off the level of flu vaccines delivered... but there might need to be a bit more close observation of COVID vaccine recipients due to potential side effects.

    I'll be happy to take it. As I've said before I'm not particularly comfortable with the boy having it (but that may not be required looking at the UK government's deployment plan).
    Also the current vacines require a booster pretty soon after the first shot, so if you can administer a million a week that is 500k "processed" a week. Germany on the other hand estimated that they could maybe nation-wide vaccinate 60k a day, thus taking about 4 years for nation wide coverage.
    Do you need 'nationwide' coverage?
    Gross oversimplification:

    If you're going to achieve anything resembling herd immunity and wipe out the virus, yes. The anti-vaxxers brought back the measles without having to reduce overall vaccination rates by that much.

    Granted, that mostly happened by having a significant impact within a smaller community rather than a smaller nationwide impact, but that doesn't really change things. There are always going to be pockets where you don't get the same degree of coverage. But if most places are seeing vaccination rates in the high 90% range, then that random retarded pocket that's only 50% vaccinated can't do as much damage as if your nationwide rate is in the 80s.

    In the US, getting enough vaccines made and administered to cover everyone is going to take a while. What I'm hearing is that the initial doses will likely go to frontline workers so that they'll stop dropping dead, and then to high risk individuals like pregnant women and the elderly. I'm kinda high risk (immunocompromised) and my wife is pregnant, so there's a chance we'd be in line for vaccines at that point.
    As I said, I'll happily have the proposed pfizer vaccine. My main concern is that it's an entirely new type of vaccine (rna) for an entirely new disease (AFAIK there has never been a vaccine produced for a coronavirus). It may well be safe for grownups but children are not 'little adults'...


  14. #5454

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    If they're smart, they'll start with a flu-vaccine style campaign targeting vulnerable people and people who come into the most contact with said vulnerable people before rolling it out nationwide.

    They're not smart, though, so...
    I'm pretty confident that in here it will start with really sane and targeted rollout due to limited availability. The rollout plan should be published this month. It has already been confirmed that the vacinations are going to be free (like all others in the national vaccination plan are).

  15. #5455
    Pegging Specialist Donor indi's Avatar
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    And this is part of what I meant, now with some causes thrown in.

  16. #5456

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    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiodome View Post
    I listen to the BMJ podcast (British Medical Journal), and they've been raising concerns that the initial planning documentation the community practices have received to carry out mass vaccinations just are not practically possible. The gist being that they are to be asked to run vaccinations 8am-8pm every day, but to do that there simply won't be staff available for normal business (i.e. providing healthcare). There's a shortage of healthcare professionals as it is, they can't just magically double their staffing levels at short notice, especially as there doesn't seem to be funding in place to pay the extra people needed. Just typical governmental wishful thinking.

    Will probably end up with single purpose mass vaccination centres in school halls etc. which is what I assumed would be the route anyway, god knows why anyone would think you can vaccinate an entire population via GP surgeries and hospitals.
    I heard a figure of a million a week in the UK being touted on the radio, the suggestion was that this isn't far off the level of flu vaccines delivered... but there might need to be a bit more close observation of COVID vaccine recipients due to potential side effects.

    I'll be happy to take it. As I've said before I'm not particularly comfortable with the boy having it (but that may not be required looking at the UK government's deployment plan).
    Also the current vacines require a booster pretty soon after the first shot, so if you can administer a million a week that is 500k "processed" a week. Germany on the other hand estimated that they could maybe nation-wide vaccinate 60k a day, thus taking about 4 years for nation wide coverage.
    I don't k now how that is for other vaccines, but this one requires transport/storage at -70 C. From what I've heard, that makes mass vaccination it quite complicated/challenging. That's one major reason why the daily number is comparatively low.

  17. #5457

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post

    I don't k now how that is for other vaccines, but this one requires transport/storage at -70 C. From what I've heard, that makes mass vaccination it quite complicated/challenging. That's one major reason why the daily number is comparatively low.
    We know how to make vaccines without cold storage on an industrial scale these days but unfortunately "these days" was basically just a few weeks ago, The machines haven't been built yet (or sold for that matter) so it won't do us much good for Covid vaccines as I'm sure the lead times are years due to red tape.

    https://ziccum.com/
    Last edited by Spartan Dax; November 15 2020 at 08:11:46 PM.

  18. #5458
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post

    I don't k now how that is for other vaccines, but this one requires transport/storage at -70 C. From what I've heard, that makes mass vaccination it quite complicated/challenging. That's one major reason why the daily number is comparatively low.
    We know how to make vaccines without cold storage on an industrial scale these days but unfortunately "these days" was basically just a few weeks ago, The machines haven't been built yet (or sold for that matter) so it won't do us much good for Covid vaccines as I'm sure the lead times are years due to red tape.

    https://ziccum.com/
    We "know" sure. If they only have inlab results its far far off from industrial mass production. It can be heinously difficult to do rampups .


    

  19. #5459

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeekar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post

    I don't k now how that is for other vaccines, but this one requires transport/storage at -70 C. From what I've heard, that makes mass vaccination it quite complicated/challenging. That's one major reason why the daily number is comparatively low.
    We know how to make vaccines without cold storage on an industrial scale these days but unfortunately "these days" was basically just a few weeks ago, The machines haven't been built yet (or sold for that matter) so it won't do us much good for Covid vaccines as I'm sure the lead times are years due to red tape.

    https://ziccum.com/
    We "know" sure. If they only have inlab results its far far off from industrial mass production. It can be heinously difficult to do rampups .
    It's all done, blueprints by Keyplants (World leading pharmaceutical plant designer) are ready to go. This is a thing and it'll happen soon™ but not in time for Covid unfortunatly.

  20. #5460
    Super Chillerator Global Moderator teds :D's Avatar
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    As far as i understand the BioNTech/Pfizer vacinne has a specially created cool box to get around the distribution issues at the local level;

    Quote Originally Posted by Guardian
    From there, the vaccine will be transported in suitcase-sized storage boxes packed with dry ice (solid carbon dioxide) that have been specially designed by Pfizer. Each reusable box can hold between 1,000 and 5,000 doses at ultra-cold temperatures for up to 10 days. Pfizer said its vaccine can be kept for up to five days at fridge temperatures of 2-8C.
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