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Thread: Space the third frontier

  1. #3901
    Straight Hustlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    There's always a worry that the further we look the more likely we are to discover some form of cosmic horror
    All the more reason to discover it before it discovers us.
    They already know us and the strange nightmares that drives men to madness.

  2. #3902
    GeromeDoutrande's Avatar
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    We should start firing nukes into space with randomised trajectories just in case, maybe we get one of them fuckers!

  3. #3903
    Idara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeromeDoutrande View Post
    We should start firing nukes into space with randomised trajectories just in case, maybe we get one of them fuckers!
    Make sure to build new nukes though. Gotta keep the stockpiles we have to nuke each other.

  4. #3904
    August's Avatar
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    Maybe we'll finally find some alien robots.

  5. #3905

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    Quote Originally Posted by Overspark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Equium Duo View Post
    But the man is a massive ding-dong.
    All billionaires are (to various degrees). Some of them still manage to produce pretty neat stuff.

    Re: the Kessler syndrome; while the number of satellites Starlink is putting up there is definitely something to watch closely, the vast majority of them are on a sufficiently low orbit that they'll de-orbit on their own in a matter of years IIRC. So this shouldn't be a big deal for Kessler syndrome.
    It is still an issue, if anything it is more of an issue. 42,000 satellites at 7 to 14x increase in satellite's. Here is the relevant issue presented by common sense sceptic. https://youtube/2vuMzGhc1cg?t=1017 That is time stamp watch through to 26 minute's. The whole video is pretty interesting.

  6. #3906

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    It's kinda interesting how mankind keeps adding more possible answers to the Fermi paradox as we move on and put our technology to use. The Kessler syndrom is one of them, as we might be able to "lock us out" of accessing space altogether with anything larger than a few m, if we don't start cleaning up the mess up there.

    And the more answers we keep adding, the less of a paradox it is. I can very well imagine billions of alien species either have gone extinct, because they fucked up their planet like we did with ours or "enjoying" a self-inflicted lockdown, because thy blew all kinds of shit into orbit and have no way of getting tid off it again.

    Maybe there are gods after all and space-travelling species never was something they had in mind?

  7. #3907
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    It's kinda interesting how mankind keeps adding more possible answers to the Fermi paradox as we move on and put our technology to use. The Kessler syndrom is one of them, as we might be able to "lock us out" of accessing space altogether with anything larger than a few m, if we don't start cleaning up the mess up there.

    And the more answers we keep adding, the less of a paradox it is. I can very well imagine billions of alien species either have gone extinct, because they fucked up their planet like we did with ours or "enjoying" a self-inflicted lockdown, because thy blew all kinds of shit into orbit and have no way of getting tid off it again.

    Maybe there are gods after all and space-travelling species never was something they had in mind?
    Even worst possible Kessler syndrome will clear up on its own over a couple of decades sure to atmospheric drag.

  8. #3908

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    Are you sure about that, because that's not what I seem to remember?

    OK, a quick Google search returned this one
    However, a ring is not likely to ever form in low Earth orbit because atmospheric drag will
    remove dust particles long before their inclinations approach zero. Unfortunately, as has been
    concluded by a number of investigations, atmospheric drag will not remove larger collision frag-
    ments at a rate faster than they can be generated by the current population of intact objects. Con-
    sequently, certain regions of low Earth orbit will likely see a slow, but continuous growth in colli-
    sion fragments that will not stop until the intact population is reduced in number.
    That's a "maybe" then, I guess?

    Source: The Kessler Syndrome: Implications to Future Space operations by Donald J. Kessler1, Nicholas L. Johnson2, J.-C. Liou2, and Mark Matney2
    1Retired NASA, 2NASA

  9. #3909
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Maybe there are gods after all and space-travelling species never was something they had in mind?
    The metaphysical implications of omniscient beings not having something in mind would be...troubling.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...
    Johns Hopkins CSSE COVID-19 Dashboard (updated link)

  10. #3910
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    We Finally Know The True Extent of Space Destroying Astronauts' Red Blood Cells: https://www.sciencealert.com/space-a...worked-out-why
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...
    Johns Hopkins CSSE COVID-19 Dashboard (updated link)

  11. #3911

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Maybe there are gods after all and space-travelling species never was something they had in mind?
    The metaphysical implications of omniscient beings not having something in mind would be...troubling.
    Being omniscient is something you attributed to the term "gods". Zeus and Odin never claimed such a thing, only those false idols from the middle east.

  12. #3912
    Specially Pegged Donor Overspark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redmoore View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Overspark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Equium Duo View Post
    But the man is a massive ding-dong.
    All billionaires are (to various degrees). Some of them still manage to produce pretty neat stuff.

    Re: the Kessler syndrome; while the number of satellites Starlink is putting up there is definitely something to watch closely, the vast majority of them are on a sufficiently low orbit that they'll de-orbit on their own in a matter of years IIRC. So this shouldn't be a big deal for Kessler syndrome.
    It is still an issue, if anything it is more of an issue. 42,000 satellites at 7 to 14x increase in satellite's. Here is the relevant issue presented by common sense sceptic. https://youtube/2vuMzGhc1cg?t=1017 That is time stamp watch through to 26 minute's. The whole video is pretty interesting.
    Watched between the timestamp you linked and 26 minutes, but I have plenty of bones to pick with that video. He agrees that satellites at 550km will de-orbit in a matter of years. Starlink gives 5 years as a number. Then he claims that no Starlink satellites have been de-orbited yet. This is false, a simple google gives me multiple articles about dozens of satellites being de-orbited. If he means only the ones that failed then they haven't been up long enough to see them re-enter. Then he implies that all collisions that have happened in space so far are from debris, completely ignoring meteoroids, which are more common right now and more dangerous.

    Quote Originally Posted by dzajic View Post
    Even worst possible Kessler syndrome will clear up on its own over a couple of decades sure to atmospheric drag.
    No, this isn't true unfortunately. Geostationary orbits take thousands of years to re-enter the atmosphere for example. However, Kessler specifically talked about problems in low-earth orbit. Those orbits will decay in decades, but the collisions that will happen will keep creating new objects for a while and the orbit of those objects can be higher than LEO. The real question is how big of a problem it will be if this happens, since it has been suggested that we can still launch through it to reach higher orbits. LEO will be fucked though.

    Kessler Syndrome definitely is something to watch out for but IMHO Starlink isn't the biggest issue. The destruction of the Kosmos 1408 sattelite by the Russians last november created a large debris cloud "with 1500 pieces of debris being tracked and an estimated hundreds of thousands of pieces too small to track" according to wikipedia. That's more pieces of debris from a single event than there will ever be Starlink satellites. Shit like this is what'll put us over the edge IMHO, not a bunch of satellites that'll burn up in 5 years.

  13. #3913

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    Quote Originally Posted by Overspark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Redmoore View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Overspark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Equium Duo View Post
    But the man is a massive ding-dong.
    All billionaires are (to various degrees). Some of them still manage to produce pretty neat stuff.

    Re: the Kessler syndrome; while the number of satellites Starlink is putting up there is definitely something to watch closely, the vast majority of them are on a sufficiently low orbit that they'll de-orbit on their own in a matter of years IIRC. So this shouldn't be a big deal for Kessler syndrome.
    It is still an issue, if anything it is more of an issue. 42,000 satellites at 7 to 14x increase in satellite's. Here is the relevant issue presented by common sense sceptic. https://youtube/2vuMzGhc1cg?t=1017 That is time stamp watch through to 26 minute's. The whole video is pretty interesting.
    Watched between the timestamp you linked and 26 minutes, but I have plenty of bones to pick with that video. He agrees that satellites at 550km will de-orbit in a matter of years. Starlink gives 5 years as a number. Then he claims that no Starlink satellites have been de-orbited yet. This is false, a simple google gives me multiple articles about dozens of satellites being de-orbited. If he means only the ones that failed then they haven't been up long enough to see them re-enter. Then he implies that all collisions that have happened in space so far are from debris, completely ignoring meteoroids, which are more common right now and more dangerous.

    Quote Originally Posted by dzajic View Post
    Even worst possible Kessler syndrome will clear up on its own over a couple of decades sure to atmospheric drag.
    No, this isn't true unfortunately. Geostationary orbits take thousands of years to re-enter the atmosphere for example. However, Kessler specifically talked about problems in low-earth orbit. Those orbits will decay in decades, but the collisions that will happen will keep creating new objects for a while and the orbit of those objects can be higher than LEO. The real question is how big of a problem it will be if this happens, since it has been suggested that we can still launch through it to reach higher orbits. LEO will be fucked though.

    Kessler Syndrome definitely is something to watch out for but IMHO Starlink isn't the biggest issue. The destruction of the Kosmos 1408 sattelite by the Russians last november created a large debris cloud "with 1500 pieces of debris being tracked and an estimated hundreds of thousands of pieces too small to track" according to wikipedia. That's more pieces of debris from a single event than there will ever be Starlink satellites. Shit like this is what'll put us over the edge IMHO, not a bunch of satellites that'll burn up in 5 years.
    Currently Startlink has a failure rated admitted by starlink of between 2.5 and 5% . If starlink get their 42,000 satellites thats 1050 to 2100 to use astronomer Jonathan McDowell term "rocks". That carnt be guided while flying around in earth low orbit with the other 40k of starlink satellites. And that 42k is just the operational satellites they need, it doesn't include the replacement cycle. It is also a bit unreliable to take any time frame that Musk has any involvement with as reliable. I just value the ability of being able to put needed satellites up over putting up a potentially risky and not needed system in the way starlink is designed. Maybe Musk wants stop all space access for 5 years so he can get some of his rockets back on schedule.

  14. #3914
    tulip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redmoore View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Overspark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Redmoore View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Overspark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Equium Duo View Post
    But the man is a massive ding-dong.
    All billionaires are (to various degrees). Some of them still manage to produce pretty neat stuff.

    Re: the Kessler syndrome; while the number of satellites Starlink is putting up there is definitely something to watch closely, the vast majority of them are on a sufficiently low orbit that they'll de-orbit on their own in a matter of years IIRC. So this shouldn't be a big deal for Kessler syndrome.
    It is still an issue, if anything it is more of an issue. 42,000 satellites at 7 to 14x increase in satellite's. Here is the relevant issue presented by common sense sceptic. https://youtube/2vuMzGhc1cg?t=1017 That is time stamp watch through to 26 minute's. The whole video is pretty interesting.
    Watched between the timestamp you linked and 26 minutes, but I have plenty of bones to pick with that video. He agrees that satellites at 550km will de-orbit in a matter of years. Starlink gives 5 years as a number. Then he claims that no Starlink satellites have been de-orbited yet. This is false, a simple google gives me multiple articles about dozens of satellites being de-orbited. If he means only the ones that failed then they haven't been up long enough to see them re-enter. Then he implies that all collisions that have happened in space so far are from debris, completely ignoring meteoroids, which are more common right now and more dangerous.

    Quote Originally Posted by dzajic View Post
    Even worst possible Kessler syndrome will clear up on its own over a couple of decades sure to atmospheric drag.
    No, this isn't true unfortunately. Geostationary orbits take thousands of years to re-enter the atmosphere for example. However, Kessler specifically talked about problems in low-earth orbit. Those orbits will decay in decades, but the collisions that will happen will keep creating new objects for a while and the orbit of those objects can be higher than LEO. The real question is how big of a problem it will be if this happens, since it has been suggested that we can still launch through it to reach higher orbits. LEO will be fucked though.

    Kessler Syndrome definitely is something to watch out for but IMHO Starlink isn't the biggest issue. The destruction of the Kosmos 1408 sattelite by the Russians last november created a large debris cloud "with 1500 pieces of debris being tracked and an estimated hundreds of thousands of pieces too small to track" according to wikipedia. That's more pieces of debris from a single event than there will ever be Starlink satellites. Shit like this is what'll put us over the edge IMHO, not a bunch of satellites that'll burn up in 5 years.
    Currently Startlink has a failure rated admitted by starlink of between 2.5 and 5% . If starlink get their 42,000 satellites thats 1050 to 2100 to use astronomer Jonathan McDowell term "rocks". That carnt be guided while flying around in earth low orbit with the other 40k of starlink satellites. And that 42k is just the operational satellites they need, it doesn't include the replacement cycle. It is also a bit unreliable to take any time frame that Musk has any involvement with as reliable. I just value the ability of being able to put needed satellites up over putting up a potentially risky and not needed system in the way starlink is designed. Maybe Musk wants stop all space access for 5 years so he can get some of his rockets back on schedule.
    Billionaire moves to Mars and accidentally triggers Kessler cascade preventing return for himself and other super rich space tourists. I guess I'll miss the weather satellites...
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarminic View Post
    Just for the record, "sending a needy text" is never the right answer.

  15. #3915
    Mashie Saldana's Avatar
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    Jared Isaacman is now looking to return to space another three times after the Inspiration4 mission last year.

    First up is the first civilian EVA using SpaceX designed suits as well as going further out than Gemini 11. There will also be SpaceX employees in the crew for the first time. The following flight will continue on with what they learned on that flight and then the final flight will be the first manned Starship flight.

    https://www.space.com/polaris-progra...pacex-isaacman

  16. #3916
    Crystalline Entity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wewe22 View Post
    i am very curious about astronomy and stuff, if u do too check this artcle out, it is nice to read https://www.space.com/spaceflight-de...ed-blood-cells

    Welcome to this very active forum
    "I think we could all do with sitting back a bit and detaching ourselves from the situation to really think about how these issues reflect on our future and how we discuss them here and be a bit less aggressive or defensive because everyone has a complicated set of circumstances that has led the to place importance on particular issues and it doesn't meany any of them is less valid, we just need to look at the broader picture"

    Smuggo - Brexit Thread

  17. #3917
    Specially Pegged Donor Overspark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
    Jared Isaacman is now looking to return to space another three times after the Inspiration4 mission last year.
    Ooh his wife is gonna love that (she made him promise he'd never do it again IIRC in the Netflix docu series that was made about Inspiration4 - decent watch if you haven't seen it yet).

  18. #3918
    Mashie Saldana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overspark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
    Jared Isaacman is now looking to return to space another three times after the Inspiration4 mission last year.
    Ooh his wife is gonna love that (she made him promise he'd never do it again IIRC in the Netflix docu series that was made about Inspiration4 - decent watch if you haven't seen it yet).
    Yeah I have seen it, was very good.

    I guess she will have to get used to it at this rate. He definitely has the right mindset, if you can afford stuff like this why not do it? You only live once.

  19. #3919

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    Space is HUUUGE


  20. #3920
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Space is HUUUGE

    You could squeeze Pluto in there with the others too, clearly yet more proof it's a planet!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarminic View Post
    Just for the record, "sending a needy text" is never the right answer.

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