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Thread: The Questionably Fascist [USA Politics Thread]™

  1. #39601
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Absolutely smashing

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  3. #39603
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post


    Absolutely smashing
    Since fascism is bad, we should do socialism?
    Are you an engineer? -- Quack

  4. #39604
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    Can someone explain why Anarchy/Anarchists is/are a good thing, and why we should be ok with AntiFi violently supporting a "Marxist" version of said Anarchy?

    Why should a reasonable individual no see AntiFa is the same light as any other extremist, violent, organization with a far fringe ideology?

    While we're at it, can someone explain why everyone here seems to loathe libertarianism, but we have half a dozen dedicated Anarchists here? Seems the two ideologies share quite a bit.

    Anarchism is a political philosophy that advocates self-governed societies based on voluntary institutions. These are often described as stateless societies,[1][2][3][4] although several authors have defined them more specifically as institutions based on non-hierarchical free associations.[5][6][7][8] Anarchism holds the state to be undesirable, unnecessary and harmful.[9][10]

    While anti-statism is central,[11] anarchism specifically entails opposing authority or hierarchical organisation in the conduct of all human relations, including—but not limited to—the state system. Anarchism is usually considered an extreme left-wing ideology[12][13] and much of anarchist economics and anarchist legal philosophy reflects anti-authoritarian interpretations of communism, collectivism, syndicalism, mutualism or participatory economics.[14]
    Libertarianism (Latin: libertas, "freedom") is a collection of political philosophies and movements that uphold liberty as a core principle.[1] Libertarians seek to maximize political freedom and autonomy, emphasizing freedom of choice, voluntary association, individual judgment, and self-ownership.[2][3][4][5][6]

    Libertarians share a skepticism of authority and state power. However, they diverge on the scope of their opposition to existing political and economic systems. Various schools of libertarian thought offer a range of views regarding the legitimate functions of state and private power, often calling to restrict or to dissolve coercive social institutions.

    Some libertarians advocate laissez-faire capitalism and strong private property rights,[7] such as in land, infrastructure, and natural resources. Others, notably libertarian socialists,[8] seek to abolish capitalism and private ownership of the means of production in favor of their common or cooperative ownership and management, viewing private property as a barrier to freedom and liberty.[9][10][11][12] An additional line of division is between minarchists and anarchists. While minarchists think that a minimal centralized government is necessary, anarchists and anarcho-capitalists propose to completely eliminate the state.[13][14]


    "Nothing left to do, but smile, smile, smile......" Robert Hunter, "He's Gone"
    "...we looked very closely at the matter and concluded that unfortunately arseholes also get to benefit from democratic freedoms." Andreas Geisel, Interior Affairs Senator, Germany


  5. #39605
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    annnnnnd we're back to "both sides are just as bad" idiocy

  6. #39606

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Can someone explain why Anarchy/Anarchists is/are a good thing, and why we should be ok with AntiFi violently supporting a "Marxist" version of said Anarchy?

    Why should a reasonable individual no see AntiFa is the same light as any other extremist, violent, organization with a far fringe ideology?

    While we're at it, can someone explain why everyone here seems to loathe libertarianism, but we have half a dozen dedicated Anarchists here? Seems the two ideologies share quite a bit.

    Anarchism is a political philosophy that advocates self-governed societies based on voluntary institutions. These are often described as stateless societies,[1][2][3][4] although several authors have defined them more specifically as institutions based on non-hierarchical free associations.[5][6][7][8] Anarchism holds the state to be undesirable, unnecessary and harmful.[9][10]

    While anti-statism is central,[11] anarchism specifically entails opposing authority or hierarchical organisation in the conduct of all human relations, including—but not limited to—the state system. Anarchism is usually considered an extreme left-wing ideology[12][13] and much of anarchist economics and anarchist legal philosophy reflects anti-authoritarian interpretations of communism, collectivism, syndicalism, mutualism or participatory economics.[14]
    Libertarianism (Latin: libertas, "freedom") is a collection of political philosophies and movements that uphold liberty as a core principle.[1] Libertarians seek to maximize political freedom and autonomy, emphasizing freedom of choice, voluntary association, individual judgment, and self-ownership.[2][3][4][5][6]

    Libertarians share a skepticism of authority and state power. However, they diverge on the scope of their opposition to existing political and economic systems. Various schools of libertarian thought offer a range of views regarding the legitimate functions of state and private power, often calling to restrict or to dissolve coercive social institutions.

    Some libertarians advocate laissez-faire capitalism and strong private property rights,[7] such as in land, infrastructure, and natural resources. Others, notably libertarian socialists,[8] seek to abolish capitalism and private ownership of the means of production in favor of their common or cooperative ownership and management, viewing private property as a barrier to freedom and liberty.[9][10][11][12] An additional line of division is between minarchists and anarchists. While minarchists think that a minimal centralized government is necessary, anarchists and anarcho-capitalists propose to completely eliminate the state.[13][14]
    We have half a dozen actual anarchists?

    What kind of bullshit tree did you grow that one on?

  7. #39607
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    annnnnnd we're back to "both sides are just as bad" idiocy
    Actually both sides are not as bad this time; the fascist have been peaceful, the socialist violent.
    Are you an engineer? -- Quack

  8. #39608
    Caldrion Dosto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    I also want to point out this "designation" is not a new thing.

    The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has formally classified the activities of anti-fascist groups (antifa) as “domestic terrorist violence” since early 2016
    So its not that they are gonna get apprehended as terrorists immediatley. Its more a working designation of the police force in same matter as nazis or other "fringe" groups are on watchlists.
    there's still quite a difference between that, quite reasonable, measure and the attendant baggage of getting stuffed onto the list occupied by notables such as al nusra nd the likes.
    Did you know that the same 2016 report to the NSC made clear that antifa were the 'prime instigators' of the violence? And that Ohama never denounced them.

    Violence on both sides, instigated by the left.
    Can i assume that you dont have a source for that claim? And that your full of shit per usual...

  9. #39609
    Caldrion Dosto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    annnnnnd we're back to "both sides are just as bad" idiocy
    Actually both sides are not as bad this time; the fascist have been peaceful, the socialist violent.
    Yes clearly the 44 people killed by Nazis in Sweden since 1983 are a fantasy. (and 0 killed nazis/facist in same time)
    Clearly "the same" and we have much larger black block groups in this country then the US.


    IM pretty fucking sure US numbers will be in similar ballpark. Since once again it was Nazis who killed a protestor in Charlottesville.

    And you handily handwaves away that fact.

  10. #39610
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Please stop replying to Rakshasa, most of us have him ignored for a reason

  11. #39611
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Can someone explain why Anarchy/Anarchists is/are a good thing, and why we should be ok with AntiFi violently supporting a "Marxist" version of said Anarchy?
    you should educate yourself in anarchism before you spew such utter nonsense, it makes you look significantly less stupid. moreover what makes you think you have the right to decide what antifa does, and does not support ? actually, scrap that, what makes you think that antifa is a hierarchical organisation with internal concensus ? it's a loose confederation of groups that use a common banner as well as a means of communication, more or less.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Why should a reasonable individual no see AntiFa is the same light as any other extremist, violent, organization with a far fringe ideology?
    reverse your argument and we've got a "THE NAZI'S AREN'T BAD! REALLY!" on our hands, it should be abundantly clear why the antifa position is significantly less "bad" than the white supremacy one, if you cannot see this then you need a new moral compass, but since we're assuming good faith here i will give you a hint, one of these ideological approaches is perfectly ok with stuffing sentient beings into ovens, and indeed outright advocate that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    While we're at it, can someone explain why everyone here seems to loathe libertarianism, but we have half a dozen dedicated Anarchists here? Seems the two ideologies share quite a bit.
    again, educate yourself. if you cannot see the difference between a anarcho-communist and a anarcho-capitalist then you must be either blind, not looking very hard or downright stupid, why the difference is even in the god-damn name, look for the bit that changes and apply a modicum of thinking that involves political history and the answer might even become self-apparent!

    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    annnnnnd we're back to "both sides are just as bad" idiocy
    you're assuming we ever left.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    We have half a dozen actual anarchists?

    What kind of bullshit tree did you grow that one on?
    faux news no doubt.

    also, hi!
    Last edited by Liare; September 3 2017 at 01:05:04 PM.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  12. #39612
    Omega Supreme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post

  13. #39613
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Liare please you need to warn people before you smash them

  14. #39614
    Donor Aea's Avatar
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    Buy them dinner first or something.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  15. #39615
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Liare please you need to warn people before you smash them
    its better when going in dry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aea View Post
    Buy them dinner first or something.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    as a student, i cannot afford this and find it a frivolous tradition anyway.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  16. #39616
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Except that, as usual, he's talking rubbish about matters that he's either incapable or unwilling to understand
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  17. #39617
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Did you know that the same 2016 report to the NSC made clear that antifa were the 'prime instigators' of the violence? And that Ohama never denounced them.

    Violence on both sides, instigated by the left.
    Can i assume that you dont have a source for that claim? And that your full of shit per usual...
    Previously unreported documents disclose that by April 2016, authorities believed that “anarchist extremists” were the primary instigators of violence at public rallies against a range of targets. They were blamed by authorities for attacks on the police, government and political institutions, along with symbols of “the capitalist system,” racism, social injustice and fascism, according to a confidential 2016 joint intelligence assessment by DHS and the FBI.
    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...nce-fbi-242235

    My fault, I said 'prime' when it was actually 'primary'.
    Are you an engineer? -- Quack

  18. #39618

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    you should educate yourself in anarchism before you spew such utter nonsense, it makes you look significantly less stupid. moreover what makes you think you have the right to decide what antifa does, and does not support ? actually, scrap that, what makes you think that antifa is a hierarchical organisation with internal concensus ? it's a loose confederation of groups that use a common banner as well as a means of communication, more or less.
    So Antifa is like ISIS?

    OK.

    Also LOL at "educate yourself" used in a non-ironic fashion.

  19. #39619
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Except that, as usual, he's talking rubbish about matters that he's either incapable or unwilling to understand
    GOP senators: Comey drafted statement clearing Clinton before her interview
    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...n-email-242213

    Evidence suggest he knows exactly what he is talking about, and you do not.
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  20. #39620
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    you should educate yourself in anarchism before you spew such utter nonsense, it makes you look significantly less stupid. moreover what makes you think you have the right to decide what antifa does, and does not support ? actually, scrap that, what makes you think that antifa is a hierarchical organisation with internal concensus ? it's a loose confederation of groups that use a common banner as well as a means of communication, more or less.
    So Antifa is like ISIS?

    OK.

    Also LOL at "educate yourself" used in a non-ironic fashion.
    Antifa isn't an organization but a label groups can apply to themselves if they think they are following in the footsteps of the 1920s Antifa. There's no hierarchy, no umbrella organization, no leadership.

    I wrote that before. You should try reading.

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