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Thread: Jihadist Caliphate LLC. Extremist Thunderdome's everywhere.

  1. #21641
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Well, most of his own people cheered when he was gone, same with Saddam. Same will happen with Assad.
    They cheered because they could start up the human trafficking racket again?

    Americans think that setting up a "democracy" in countries that can barely climb out of tribalism without mass executions is just a matter of bombing the current strongman. At least the oil is safe from being traded to chinese for infrastructure.
    The only positive of Trump is how he takes the mask off US Imperialism and admits we are there to secure oil. Not human rights or whatever liberal excuse for war crimes is being used. It's always for oil.

  2. #21642
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Well, most of his own people cheered when he was gone, same with Saddam. Same will happen with Assad.
    They cheered because they could start up the human trafficking racket again?

    Americans think that setting up a "democracy" in countries that can barely climb out of tribalism without mass executions is just a matter of bombing the current strongman. At least the oil is safe from being traded to chinese for infrastructure.
    You guys are going to cheer when Putin goes too.
    meh

  3. #21643
    Jack Coutu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Again with the excusing dictatorships. How dare anyone note that things may have actually been better under the rule of Assad, Gaddafi and Saddam? You must be a bootlicker!

    Yes there's slave markets in Tripoli now but at least that nasty mean old Gadaffi guy is gone

    And yeah, it's shit but the fact is yes, Syria is literally a pawn in the proxy war between the US and Russia, the will of the Syrian people means nothing to Washington or Moscow.
    The 13 colonies is literally a pawn in the proxy war between England and France, the will of the American people means nothing to London or Paris.

    Ah, but Americans are white so obviously they have the power of self-determination. Syrians are brown, so obviously they're puppets of white people.
    No, their will is meaningless to the lizard people and empire builders in washington and Moscow. Not that they don't have a will. I know it's hard to parse nuance if you're into identity politics so I'll leave it there and hope you can figure out the difference.

    And yeah the US was a pawn in 1776 too, you think King Louis really gave a fuck what some plantation owners in the new world were angry about? What the fuck is your point, now I'm racist for pointing out geopolitics exist? Fuck off.
    Lol I mean you are just digging a hole now, and you went and bought the shovel.

  4. #21644
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Well, most of his own people cheered when he was gone, same with Saddam. Same will happen with Assad.
    They cheered because they could start up the human trafficking racket again?

    Americans think that setting up a "democracy" in countries that can barely climb out of tribalism without mass executions is just a matter of bombing the current strongman. At least the oil is safe from being traded to chinese for infrastructure.
    The only positive of Trump is how he takes the mask off US Imperialism and admits we are there to secure oil. Not human rights or whatever liberal excuse for war crimes is being used. It's always for oil.
    Pretty soon it'll just be for population control.
    meh

  5. #21645
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Again with the excusing dictatorships. How dare anyone note that things may have actually been better under the rule of Assad, Gaddafi and Saddam? You must be a bootlicker!

    Yes there's slave markets in Tripoli now but at least that nasty mean old Gadaffi guy is gone

    And yeah, it's shit but the fact is yes, Syria is literally a pawn in the proxy war between the US and Russia, the will of the Syrian people means nothing to Washington or Moscow.
    The 13 colonies is literally a pawn in the proxy war between England and France, the will of the American people means nothing to London or Paris.

    Ah, but Americans are white so obviously they have the power of self-determination. Syrians are brown, so obviously they're puppets of white people.
    No, their will is meaningless to the lizard people and empire builders in washington and Moscow. Not that they don't have a will. I know it's hard to parse nuance if you're into identity politics so I'll leave it there and hope you can figure out the difference.

    And yeah the US was a pawn in 1776 too, you think King Louis really gave a fuck what some plantation owners in the new world were angry about? What the fuck is your point, now I'm racist for pointing out geopolitics exist? Fuck off.
    Lol I mean you are just digging a hole now, and you went and bought the shovel.
    The population of the colonies in 1776 was about 2.5 million, the British Isles had a population of 8 million in a world with much less abstracted notions of power and force projection. This is a very different power dynamic than that between US and middle eastern states in the modern age.

    The colonies had far greater ability to resist unwanted rule from a 'foreign' power.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  6. #21646
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Again with the excusing dictatorships. How dare anyone note that things may have actually been better under the rule of Assad, Gaddafi and Saddam? You must be a bootlicker!

    Yes there's slave markets in Tripoli now but at least that nasty mean old Gadaffi guy is gone

    And yeah, it's shit but the fact is yes, Syria is literally a pawn in the proxy war between the US and Russia, the will of the Syrian people means nothing to Washington or Moscow.
    The 13 colonies is literally a pawn in the proxy war between England and France, the will of the American people means nothing to London or Paris.

    Ah, but Americans are white so obviously they have the power of self-determination. Syrians are brown, so obviously they're puppets of white people.
    No, their will is meaningless to the lizard people and empire builders in washington and Moscow. Not that they don't have a will. I know it's hard to parse nuance if you're into identity politics so I'll leave it there and hope you can figure out the difference.

    And yeah the US was a pawn in 1776 too, you think King Louis really gave a fuck what some plantation owners in the new world were angry about? What the fuck is your point, now I'm racist for pointing out geopolitics exist? Fuck off.
    Lol I mean you are just digging a hole now, and you went and bought the shovel.
    Why because I dont think america in 1776 was a world power in control of it's destiny? If France didn't intervene 1776 would have been a failed rebellion and the US would be a commonwealth nation today.

    I'll shit on both stupid patriots and stupid idpollers alike. The will of the masses has never fucking mattered to those in power.

  7. #21647
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post

    Well, most of his own people cheered when he was gone, same with Saddam. Same will happen with Assad.

    Same fate that awaits every authoritarian.
    Lol, we were practically "greeted as liberators."
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  8. #21648
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post

    Well, most of his own people cheered when he was gone, same with Saddam. Same will happen with Assad.

    Same fate that awaits every authoritarian.
    Lol, we were practically "greeted as liberators."
    It would have worked if you guys had any sort of plan to create a post-war Iraq.

    You guys were quite thorough after the war in Germany. Why didn't you do the same program in Iraq?

    Tapapapatalk
    nevar forget

  9. #21649
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    Perpetual war shuffles more monies to the military industrial complex?
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  10. #21650

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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Well, most of his own people cheered when he was gone, same with Saddam. Same will happen with Assad.
    They cheered because they could start up the human trafficking racket again?

    Americans think that setting up a "democracy" in countries that can barely climb out of tribalism without mass executions is just a matter of bombing the current strongman. At least the oil is safe from being traded to chinese for infrastructure.
    The only positive of Trump is how he takes the mask off US Imperialism and admits we are there to secure oil. Not human rights or whatever liberal excuse for war crimes is being used. It's always for oil.
    Nah, Bush wasn't there just for oil. Remember, he's a wacko cultist who thinks he talks to God. I have no doubt Bush thought he was on a mission of God to bring democracy to Iraq.

  11. #21651
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post

    Well, most of his own people cheered when he was gone, same with Saddam. Same will happen with Assad.

    Same fate that awaits every authoritarian.
    Lol, we were practically "greeted as liberators."
    It would have worked if you guys had any sort of plan to create a post-war Iraq.

    You guys were quite thorough after the war in Germany. Why didn't you do the same program in Iraq?

    Tapapapatalk
    The material conditions that allowed us to reprogram the German population involved them being completely demoralized & defeated as a people by 6 years of total war, with their cities destroyed. There was also a powerful shame/guilt aspect wrt to the holocaust. How do you tell the avg Iraqi that their defeat and occupation was justified? That it was time to shape up?

    You can see that in the wolf-something insurgency, it was a comical effort and barely a blip in history because there was no fight left in anyone. We had like barely a month in Iraq to figure out this was gonna be a very different thing

    There's no guarantee that it would've worked in Iraq, and assuming that it could've is silly.

  12. #21652
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by August View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Well, most of his own people cheered when he was gone, same with Saddam. Same will happen with Assad.
    They cheered because they could start up the human trafficking racket again?

    Americans think that setting up a "democracy" in countries that can barely climb out of tribalism without mass executions is just a matter of bombing the current strongman. At least the oil is safe from being traded to chinese for infrastructure.
    The only positive of Trump is how he takes the mask off US Imperialism and admits we are there to secure oil. Not human rights or whatever liberal excuse for war crimes is being used. It's always for oil.
    Nah, Bush wasn't there just for oil. Remember, he's a wacko cultist who thinks he talks to God. I have no doubt Bush thought he was on a mission of God to bring democracy to Iraq.
    The "crusade", as I recall.
    meh

  13. #21653
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post

    Well, most of his own people cheered when he was gone, same with Saddam. Same will happen with Assad.

    Same fate that awaits every authoritarian.
    Lol, we were practically "greeted as liberators."
    It would have worked if you guys had any sort of plan to create a post-war Iraq.

    You guys were quite thorough after the war in Germany. Why didn't you do the same program in Iraq?

    Tapapapatalk
    The material conditions that allowed us to reprogram the German population involved them being completely demoralized & defeated as a people by 6 years of total war, with their cities destroyed. There was also a powerful shame/guilt aspect wrt to the holocaust. How do you tell the avg Iraqi that their defeat and occupation was justified? That it was time to shape up?

    You can see that in the wolf-something insurgency, it was a comical effort and barely a blip in history because there was no fight left in anyone. We had like barely a month in Iraq to figure out this was gonna be a very different thing

    There's no guarantee that it would've worked in Iraq, and assuming that it could've is silly.
    It took until 1968 for Germany to even start dealing with the Holocaust in earnest. Until then Germans denied knowing of it, blaming few people or perpetuating the myth of the "Clean Wehrmacht."

    When the Allies took over in 1945 they kept every member of the administration in their position that wasn't an obvious perpetrator of the Holocaust. When the Iraq capitulated, every member of the Ba'ath party and member of the administration was sacked. The same with judges, police officers and lawyers. In 1945 the Germans were able to keep their jobs, the Iraqis had to go.

    Sure there was a difference in the level of destruction brought upon Germany and Iraq. But the fuck up was gutting the public services and administration.

    Tapapapatalk
    nevar forget

  14. #21654
    evil edna's Avatar
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    The issue is that the american government believed in the 'literally cheering in the streets when great white americans come to save us' bullshit and expected iraq to just organise itself after saddam was removed. Not sure whats dumber, that or people still arguing in favor of these kind of interventions now.

  15. #21655
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post

    Well, most of his own people cheered when he was gone, same with Saddam. Same will happen with Assad.

    Same fate that awaits every authoritarian.
    Lol, we were practically "greeted as liberators."
    It would have worked if you guys had any sort of plan to create a post-war Iraq.

    You guys were quite thorough after the war in Germany. Why didn't you do the same program in Iraq?

    Tapapapatalk
    The material conditions that allowed us to reprogram the German population involved them being completely demoralized & defeated as a people by 6 years of total war, with their cities destroyed. There was also a powerful shame/guilt aspect wrt to the holocaust. How do you tell the avg Iraqi that their defeat and occupation was justified? That it was time to shape up?

    You can see that in the wolf-something insurgency, it was a comical effort and barely a blip in history because there was no fight left in anyone. We had like barely a month in Iraq to figure out this was gonna be a very different thing

    There's no guarantee that it would've worked in Iraq, and assuming that it could've is silly.
    It took until 1968 for Germany to even start dealing with the Holocaust in earnest. Until then Germans denied knowing of it, blaming few people or perpetuating the myth of the "Clean Wehrmacht."

    When the Allies took over in 1945 they kept every member of the administration in their position that wasn't an obvious perpetrator of the Holocaust. When the Iraq capitulated, every member of the Ba'ath party and member of the administration was sacked. The same with judges, police officers and lawyers. In 1945 the Germans were able to keep their jobs, the Iraqis had to go.

    Sure there was a difference in the level of destruction brought upon Germany and Iraq. But the fuck up was gutting the public services and administration.

    Tapapapatalk
    Yes but even with a "good" approach to the occupation, you can clearly see that this would've been a multi-decade project? There was no 5 year timeline or whatever for creating democracy in Iraq. And we would've had to do this under hostile conditions.

    Nothing about it would've been good, even under competent leadership. We just invaded a country and killed its people under shaky pretenses. The American public were told of an easy victory, and all their expectations of the war were shaped by that. When McCain let slip that we might have to stay for 100 years, people really recoiled at that. But even if the exact number may have been way off, the sentiment was true.

    There's no realistic way to do this other than spending trillions of dollars and expecting American soldiers to feed themselves into a wood chipper. And for what, maybe we improve the lives of the Iraqi people? Or it all goes to shit? I hate to sound selfish here, but people can't even afford insulin in America.

  16. #21656
    Shaikar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post

    Well, most of his own people cheered when he was gone, same with Saddam. Same will happen with Assad.

    Same fate that awaits every authoritarian.
    Lol, we were practically "greeted as liberators."
    It would have worked if you guys had any sort of plan to create a post-war Iraq.

    You guys were quite thorough after the war in Germany. Why didn't you do the same program in Iraq?

    Tapapapatalk
    The material conditions that allowed us to reprogram the German population involved them being completely demoralized & defeated as a people by 6 years of total war, with their cities destroyed. There was also a powerful shame/guilt aspect wrt to the holocaust. How do you tell the avg Iraqi that their defeat and occupation was justified? That it was time to shape up?

    You can see that in the wolf-something insurgency, it was a comical effort and barely a blip in history because there was no fight left in anyone. We had like barely a month in Iraq to figure out this was gonna be a very different thing

    There's no guarantee that it would've worked in Iraq, and assuming that it could've is silly.
    It took until 1968 for Germany to even start dealing with the Holocaust in earnest. Until then Germans denied knowing of it, blaming few people or perpetuating the myth of the "Clean Wehrmacht."

    When the Allies took over in 1945 they kept every member of the administration in their position that wasn't an obvious perpetrator of the Holocaust. When the Iraq capitulated, every member of the Ba'ath party and member of the administration was sacked. The same with judges, police officers and lawyers. In 1945 the Germans were able to keep their jobs, the Iraqis had to go.

    Sure there was a difference in the level of destruction brought upon Germany and Iraq. But the fuck up was gutting the public services and administration.

    Tapapapatalk
    Yes but even with a "good" approach to the occupation, you can clearly see that this would've been a multi-decade project? There was no 5 year timeline or whatever for creating democracy in Iraq. And we would've had to do this under hostile conditions.

    Nothing about it would've been good, even under competent leadership. We just invaded a country and killed its people under shaky pretenses. The American public were told of an easy victory, and all their expectations of the war were shaped by that. When McCain let slip that we might have to stay for 100 years, people really recoiled at that. But even if the exact number may have been way off, the sentiment was true.

    There's no realistic way to do this other than spending trillions of dollars and expecting American soldiers to feed themselves into a wood chipper. And for what, maybe we improve the lives of the Iraqi people? Or it all goes to shit? I hate to sound selfish here, but people can't even afford insulin in America.
    Yes, rebuilding a country after invading it and comprehensively dismantling it's entire current systems of government, law and infrastructure is a multi-decade project.

    Which is why it was mindblowingly stupid that that was the "plan" for post-war Iraq, although plan is surely overselling it as it's clear there was no plan at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush
    idiotic posts out of context

  17. #21657
    rufuske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post

    Well, most of his own people cheered when he was gone, same with Saddam. Same will happen with Assad.

    Same fate that awaits every authoritarian.
    Lol, we were practically "greeted as liberators."
    It would have worked if you guys had any sort of plan to create a post-war Iraq.

    You guys were quite thorough after the war in Germany. Why didn't you do the same program in Iraq?

    Tapapapatalk
    The material conditions that allowed us to reprogram the German population involved them being completely demoralized & defeated as a people by 6 years of total war, with their cities destroyed. There was also a powerful shame/guilt aspect wrt to the holocaust. How do you tell the avg Iraqi that their defeat and occupation was justified? That it was time to shape up?

    You can see that in the wolf-something insurgency, it was a comical effort and barely a blip in history because there was no fight left in anyone. We had like barely a month in Iraq to figure out this was gonna be a very different thing

    There's no guarantee that it would've worked in Iraq, and assuming that it could've is silly.
    It took until 1968 for Germany to even start dealing with the Holocaust in earnest. Until then Germans denied knowing of it, blaming few people or perpetuating the myth of the "Clean Wehrmacht."

    When the Allies took over in 1945 they kept every member of the administration in their position that wasn't an obvious perpetrator of the Holocaust. When the Iraq capitulated, every member of the Ba'ath party and member of the administration was sacked. The same with judges, police officers and lawyers. In 1945 the Germans were able to keep their jobs, the Iraqis had to go.

    Sure there was a difference in the level of destruction brought upon Germany and Iraq. But the fuck up was gutting the public services and administration.

    Tapapapatalk
    If only Iraq had some rocket scientists of great renown...Or any scientists doing ground breaking work tbh.

  18. #21658
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaikar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post

    Well, most of his own people cheered when he was gone, same with Saddam. Same will happen with Assad.

    Same fate that awaits every authoritarian.
    Lol, we were practically "greeted as liberators."
    It would have worked if you guys had any sort of plan to create a post-war Iraq.

    You guys were quite thorough after the war in Germany. Why didn't you do the same program in Iraq?

    Tapapapatalk
    The material conditions that allowed us to reprogram the German population involved them being completely demoralized & defeated as a people by 6 years of total war, with their cities destroyed. There was also a powerful shame/guilt aspect wrt to the holocaust. How do you tell the avg Iraqi that their defeat and occupation was justified? That it was time to shape up?

    You can see that in the wolf-something insurgency, it was a comical effort and barely a blip in history because there was no fight left in anyone. We had like barely a month in Iraq to figure out this was gonna be a very different thing

    There's no guarantee that it would've worked in Iraq, and assuming that it could've is silly.
    It took until 1968 for Germany to even start dealing with the Holocaust in earnest. Until then Germans denied knowing of it, blaming few people or perpetuating the myth of the "Clean Wehrmacht."

    When the Allies took over in 1945 they kept every member of the administration in their position that wasn't an obvious perpetrator of the Holocaust. When the Iraq capitulated, every member of the Ba'ath party and member of the administration was sacked. The same with judges, police officers and lawyers. In 1945 the Germans were able to keep their jobs, the Iraqis had to go.

    Sure there was a difference in the level of destruction brought upon Germany and Iraq. But the fuck up was gutting the public services and administration.

    Tapapapatalk
    Yes but even with a "good" approach to the occupation, you can clearly see that this would've been a multi-decade project? There was no 5 year timeline or whatever for creating democracy in Iraq. And we would've had to do this under hostile conditions.

    Nothing about it would've been good, even under competent leadership. We just invaded a country and killed its people under shaky pretenses. The American public were told of an easy victory, and all their expectations of the war were shaped by that. When McCain let slip that we might have to stay for 100 years, people really recoiled at that. But even if the exact number may have been way off, the sentiment was true.

    There's no realistic way to do this other than spending trillions of dollars and expecting American soldiers to feed themselves into a wood chipper. And for what, maybe we improve the lives of the Iraqi people? Or it all goes to shit? I hate to sound selfish here, but people can't even afford insulin in America.
    Yes, rebuilding a country after invading it and comprehensively dismantling it's entire current systems of government, law and infrastructure is a multi-decade project.

    Which is why it was mindblowingly stupid that that was the "plan" for post-war Iraq, although plan is surely overselling it as it's clear there was no plan at all.
    Yeah and if you read my argument is that the invasion was always gonna be reckless because of this. Wouldn't have mattered how good the start was. It would require imposing costs and policy on the public by force when they eventually soured on it, (probably in 2008 if not earlier). Have fun trying to stay in a war with like 20% approval rating and 15% unemployment

    It was never gonna work, for either Iraqis or the American public.

  19. #21659
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Shareholders did alright out of it though
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  20. #21660
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Well, most of his own people cheered when he was gone, same with Saddam. Same will happen with Assad.
    They cheered because they could start up the human trafficking racket again?

    Americans think that setting up a "democracy" in countries that can barely climb out of tribalism without mass executions is just a matter of bombing the current strongman. At least the oil is safe from being traded to chinese for infrastructure.
    The only positive of Trump is how he takes the mask off US Imperialism and admits we are there to secure oil. Not human rights or whatever liberal excuse for war crimes is being used. It's always for oil.
    Pretty soon it'll just be for population control.
    welp
    meh

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