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Thread: Star trek!

  1. #3241

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    Voyagers main arc was okay, and the actors were fine (except Chakotay). The problem was that it had 60+% boring as fuck bottle episodes, and not even the good kind of miniarcs but literally TNG style "veni vidi vici" episodes. That only works if the writing is really top notch, which it wasnt.

    I wouldnt be able to get into it today, the concept feels so dated.

  2. #3242
    VARRAKK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruri View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiodome View Post
    i really like lower decks. it fills the same niche for me that archer or rick&morty did. short episodes, silly, decent quality. not a trek head myself though, how has it been received by the serious business trek fans?
    It's cringey but growing on me... More trek than STD or Picard.
    p. much this.

    and yes that rlm short perfectly captured the incredibly stupid writing in disco.
    The season finale episode was really good.
    Why is it called earth, when it is mostly water???

  3. #3243
    Donor Verite Rendition's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boltorano View Post
    Kate Mulgrew is coming back to 'Trek.
    Does it say anywhere whether this is a cameo, a recurring character, or a regular? I'm assuming the first of those, but I admittedly know very little about Prodigy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruri View Post
    Voyager writers were also all over the map with Janeway's character, but she's a fine actor and could ham it up with the best of them.
    Agreed. Voyager had plenty of problems. Mulgrew's acting skills were not one of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by VARRAKK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruri View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Larkonnis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiodome View Post
    i really like lower decks. it fills the same niche for me that archer or rick&morty did. short episodes, silly, decent quality. not a trek head myself though, how has it been received by the serious business trek fans?
    It's cringey but growing on me... More trek than STD or Picard.
    p. much this.

    and yes that rlm short perfectly captured the incredibly stupid writing in disco.
    The season finale episode was really good.
    Is it really that good? (And did they stop substituting in fan service in place of character growth?) I have to admit stopped after 5 or so episodes because of Mariner.
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  4. #3244

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilalaunebör View Post
    Voyagers main arc was okay, and the actors were fine (except Chakotay).
    Not sure if that's Beltran's fault or the writers / show runners. Or perhaps a combination of both:

    One of Robert Beltran’s biggest complaints about Star Trek: Voyager was the feeling that Chakotay wasn’t being given the relationships that would truly help define his character. He says that he enjoyed the early episodes that highlighted the relationship between former Maquis member Chakotay and Captain Janeway (Kate Mulgrew). “After Seska (Martha Hackett) left, it was only that relationship with the captain that had depth to it. Chakotay and Tuvok didn’t have much. Chakotay and Paris didn’t have much. Chakotay and the other characters, there wasn’t much of a relationship there.”
    Chakotay and Seven

    One notable exception to that was the romantic relationship between Chakotay and Seven of Nine (Jeri Ryan). However, Robert Beltran says that even with that subplot, the introduction of Seven of Nine — and the departure of executive producer Jeri Taylor — actually hurt his character in the long run. He says that once Seven of Nine joined the crew, new showrunner Brannon Braga and the writers began to downplay some characters — Chakotay, Tuvok (Tim Russ), Kim (Garrett Wang), and Neelix (Ethan Phillips) — and turn more focus on the Captain, the holographic Doctor (Robert Picardo), and the Borg in the slinky silver catsuit. As Beltran explains:

    "Those three characters were kind of all-seeing, all-knowing, omnipotent, and I think a lot of the tension and drama that was available was lost because you have to really dig hard to find tension in all-knowing, all-seeing characters. They know everything, right? They have all the answers. Or else you have a redundancy of the same scene written over and over and over again, with slight variations.”
    I seem to remember that I've read elsewhere that he basically gave up trying/acting.

  5. #3245
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilalaunebör View Post
    Voyagers main arc was okay, and the actors were fine (except Chakotay). The problem was that it had 60+% boring as fuck bottle episodes, and not even the good kind of miniarcs but literally TNG style "veni vidi vici" episodes. That only works if the writing is really top notch, which it wasnt.

    I wouldnt be able to get into it today, the concept feels so dated.
    It's the only series I've never watched, so I'm doing a slow watch through now, and fuck me you're not wrong.

    The pilot is really well done, sets up the situation really nicely, and then....holodeck episode, holodeck episode, monster of the week, monster of the week, monster of the week, neelix being a prick for no reason.

    It feels like they wanted to make TNG2 and kinda forgot the setup they'd used.
    Last edited by Zekk Pacus; October 9 2020 at 03:09:15 PM.
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  6. #3246

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verite Rendition View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Boltorano View Post
    Kate Mulgrew is coming back to 'Trek.
    Does it say anywhere whether this is a cameo, a recurring character, or a regular? I'm assuming the first of those, but I admittedly know very little about Prodigy.

    From the sound of it: the latter.
    Quote Originally Posted by TFA
    Actress Kate Mulgrew, who played Captain Kathryn Janeway in Star Trek: Voyager, is returning to the franchise to reprise her role in the upcoming Star Trek: Prodigy animated series, ViacomCBS announced today.

    Mulgrew popped in to make the surprise announcement during the end of a Star Trek panel at this year's all-virtual New York Comic Con. "I have invested every scintilla of my being in Captain Janeway, and I can’t wait to endow her with nuance that I never did before," Mulgrew said. "How thrilling to be able to introduce to these young minds an idea that has elevated the world for decades. To be at the helm again is going to be deeply gratifying in a new way for me."
    https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/...-trek-in-2021/

    [Added]
    And before you all get fully hyped:
    Prodigy, the first modern* Star Trek series to be explicitly targeted to a young audience, will be coming to Nickelodeon at some point in 2021.
    Last edited by Hel OWeen; October 9 2020 at 02:14:18 PM.

  7. #3247

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekk Pacus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilalaunebör View Post
    Voyagers main arc was okay, and the actors were fine (except Chakotay). The problem was that it had 60+% boring as fuck bottle episodes, and not even the good kind of miniarcs but literally TNG style "veni vidi vici" episodes. That only works if the writing is really top notch, which it wasnt.

    I wouldnt be able to get into it today, the concept feels so dated.
    It's the only series I've ever watched, so I'm doing a slow watch through now, and fuck me you're not wrong.

    The pilot is really well done, sets up the situation really nicely, and then....holodeck episode, holodeck episode, monster of the week, monster of the week, monster of the week, neelix being a prick for no reason.

    It feels like they wanted to make TNG2 and kinda forgot the setup they'd used.
    I think external pressures (and a bad writer with some questional priorities) really hurt Voyager. Bringing in the Borg. Bringing in Seven of Nine (great looking though she was). They both reeked of ratings desperation, not quality storytelling.

    The lack of decent character progression, the poor way a number of characters were handled long term (Kim especially), and the somewhat speedy abandonment of much of the set-up was all bad.

    And sure, with a hindsight we now expect far more than a "monster of the week" from our TV Sci-Fi, but that, given the time and place and franchise, I can forgive. Voyager wasn't going to pre-empt the NetFlix/HBO manner of TV story making.


  8. #3248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verite Rendition View Post
    Is it really that good? (And did they stop substituting in fan service in place of character growth?) I have to admit stopped after 5 or so episodes because of Mariner.
    It is actually pretty darn good, there is still a ton of references / fan service but the show finally started using them as actual plot devices and not just memberberries. It's a really minor spoiler but I'll tag it anyroad -

      Spoiler:
    In the cold open Cerritos has to go to the planet that Kirk "saved" in Return of the Archons where the civilization was worshipping a computer, and stop them from going back to worshipping it because it was about to lead them into a purge, the subtext being that after the Enterprise warps away off to another adventure, the people it leaves behind don't always go on to become enlightened or whatever. This comes up again in the main story for the episode, in a much more consequential way.


    There are also a few moments of genuinely great comic timing. Overall the show is still somewhat uneven, one review I read mentioned that it feels like the four main characters spend most of the time separated instead of really working together, which I agree with, but there are some surprisingly sweet and well-earned character beats in this finale.

    If you're only ever annoyed by the in-jokes I doubt this will ever be the series for you, but I'm actually content enough to chuckle through most of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Bringing in Seven of Nine (great looking though she was).
    ~ oh yeah thanks for reaffirming that's the only reason to ever add a female character to a show, i'd almost forgotten ~
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot
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  9. #3249

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruri View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Bringing in Seven of Nine (great looking though she was).
    ~ oh yeah thanks for reaffirming that's the only reason to ever add a female character to a show, i'd almost forgotten ~
    *sigh*

    1. No, looks are not the only reason to bring a woman onto a TV show.

    2. With that said, Hollywood and media in general are full of mediocre acting yet exceptionally good looking people who are only there because of their appealing looks, so please spare me your outrage or direct it at Hollywood, or the viewers as a whole, or somewhere else slightly more appropriate.

    3. It is rather well known/discussed amongst the Trek fanbase that the particular reportedly-bordering-on-me-too-issues-producer dude behind Star Trek Voyager (I believe it was Rick Berman) who made the decision to bring Jerry Ryan onboard did so, and directed her skin tight outfits, because he wanted more T & A. In part, because he was reportedly a sleaze, and because he wanted to appeal to a younger male audience for the show(s).

    4. Casting and wardrobe for Ryan is not the only criticism Berman gets, the casting of Jolene Blaylock for Enterprise, and then having her take off her clothes as much as she did, is another issue for this guy.

    Finally, if I found Jerry Ryan circa 1995 attractive, why do you have a problem if I say so today, in 2020?


  10. #3250
    Venec's Avatar
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    She, and the Doctor, stole the show completely tho. Great acting on her part.

  11. #3251

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venec View Post
    She, and the Doctor, stole the show completely tho. Great acting on her part.
    Agreed. Loved Picardo in Voyager, he was far and away the most interesting character/concept many times.


  12. #3252
    Jack Coutu's Avatar
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    Is Picard worth watching? Last Trek i watched was Enterprise. I barely remember a moment of that show, I don't mind if its not stellar, just don't want to watch pure harbage.

  13. #3253
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    It's fine but there's better TV

    It's pretty silly especially toward the end


    Poland treats me like shit and I hate them as a result of it

  14. #3254

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    Lets put it like this: Where Lower Decks does callbacks well, because its essentially a spoof of Trek, Picard hits you over the head with "Remember this thing? Wasnt that cool? Right thats done now, on to the next meaningless reference!".

    Not to mention, the plot is shizophrenic and the finale is blah. The worldbuilding is kindof intriguing, but never fleshed out (it shits all over the utopian ideas of TOS/TNG).

    Nice production values, though.
    Last edited by Lilalaunebör; October 10 2020 at 01:10:32 AM.

  15. #3255
    Totally Not Larkonnis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilalaunebör View Post
    Lets put it like this: Where Lower Decks does callbacks well, because its essentially a spoof of Trek, Picard hits you over the head with "Remember this thing? Wasnt that cool? Right thats done now, on to the next meaningless reference!".

    Not to mention, the plot is shizophrenic and the finale is blah. The worldbuilding is kondof intriguing, but never fleshed out (it shits all over the utopian ideas of TOS/TNG).

    Nice production values, though.
    Lower Decks is an entertaining parody but not 'canon' because it's too self aware (due to many references in that last episode).


  16. #3256

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    Thats going to upset some nerds, i just had a look at Memory Alpha and the Lower Decks stuff is treated like canon. No skin off my back though.

  17. #3257
    Phrixus Zephyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    Is Picard worth watching? Last Trek i watched was Enterprise. I barely remember a moment of that show, I don't mind if its not stellar, just don't want to watch pure harbage.
    Personally I think it's fucking awful and I couldn't even watch the last couple of episodes.

    It's just a load of bad writers stomping around in canon they only have a passing knowledge of.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

  18. #3258
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    If you want to watch Mass Effect 3 set in the Star Trek universe, have at it.

    Lower Decks is officially treated as canon fyi.
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  19. #3259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruri View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Bringing in Seven of Nine (great looking though she was).
    ~ oh yeah thanks for reaffirming that's the only reason to ever add a female character to a show, i'd almost forgotten ~
    *sigh*

    1. No, looks are not the only reason to bring a woman onto a TV show.

    2. With that said, Hollywood and media in general are full of mediocre acting yet exceptionally good looking people who are only there because of their appealing looks, so please spare me your outrage or direct it at Hollywood, or the viewers as a whole, or somewhere else slightly more appropriate.

    3. It is rather well known/discussed amongst the Trek fanbase that the particular reportedly-bordering-on-me-too-issues-producer dude behind Star Trek Voyager (I believe it was Rick Berman) who made the decision to bring Jerry Ryan onboard did so, and directed her skin tight outfits, because he wanted more T & A. In part, because he was reportedly a sleaze, and because he wanted to appeal to a younger male audience for the show(s).

    4. Casting and wardrobe for Ryan is not the only criticism Berman gets, the casting of Jolene Blaylock for Enterprise, and then having her take off her clothes as much as she did, is another issue for this guy.

    Finally, if I found Jerry Ryan circa 1995 attractive, why do you have a problem if I say so today, in 2020?
    that's fine, it just stands out when you pick one specific thing to focus on in the point you're making, even though there are all these other reasons you could have chosen to say as well but didn't, and that one thing is the woman's attractiveness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrixus Zephyr View Post
    It's just a load of bad writers stomping around in canon they only have a passing knowledge of.
    this is a p. right on assesssment of the entirety of NuTrek.
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  20. #3260
    Donor Verite Rendition's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phrixus Zephyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    Is Picard worth watching? Last Trek i watched was Enterprise. I barely remember a moment of that show, I don't mind if its not stellar, just don't want to watch pure harbage.
    Personally I think it's fucking awful and I couldn't even watch the last couple of episodes.

    It's just a load of bad writers stomping around in canon they only have a passing knowledge of.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
    I'll be fair: Picard could have been worse. But it was definitely not worth the time spent watching it.
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