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Thread: The Eastern Front: (Kalevala/Geminate/Etherium/Perrigen Falls)

  1. #361

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Ah so you want an extremely empty nullsec.
    Why would a large number of small alliances make space empty?

    Fountain is currently inhabited by a bunch of small alliances, and it has twice as many kills this month as Branch, which is held by a single alliance. Both regions are about as hard to get to.
    People living nearby = more activity than 'the only people who come here are wormholers'

    Smaller alliances are almost always more active than large alliances, fielding a much higher percentage of their dudes in fleets.

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeoniaTavira View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Ah so you want an extremely empty nullsec.
    Why would a large number of small alliances make space empty?

    Fountain is currently inhabited by a bunch of small alliances, and it has twice as many kills this month as Branch, which is held by a single alliance. Both regions are about as hard to get to.
    People living nearby = more activity than 'the only people who come here are wormholers'

    Smaller alliances are almost always more active than large alliances, fielding a much higher percentage of their dudes in fleets.
    And where are all of these players to fill up nullsec going to come from?
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  3. #363
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    All the shitty NPC 0.0 corners and highsec areas. Hopefully some lowsec groups too. Shadow Cartel and Snuff would be real hard hitting legit nullsec players if they weren't so stuck in their ways.
    "Last night I saw upon the stair
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  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraph IX Basarab View Post
    All the shitty NPC 0.0 corners and highsec areas. Hopefully some lowsec groups too. Shadow Cartel and Snuff would be real hard hitting legit nullsec players if they weren't so stuck in their ways.
    Why should they move to nullsec though? They have their fun in lowsec because of lowsec mechanics and accessibility. The biggest problem with fozziesov is nullsec is not an attractive option. Especially not with alternatives such as Thera, w-space or FW for people looking for something more casual.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  5. #365
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    I mean Fountain is a perfect example of exactly what I said happening. Fcore took sov as did LSH and Euro-BL (The-Culture.) Why? Because 0.0 can make you wealthier than lowsec. Aegisov sucks for people who deal with it like Dominionsov. For those that adapt, it's mostly good. It's not perfect but it's certainly better.
    "Last night I saw upon the stair
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    He wasn’t there again today
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  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraph IX Basarab View Post
    I mean Fountain is a perfect example of exactly what I said happening. Fcore took sov as did LSH and Euro-BL (The-Culture.) Why? Because 0.0 can make you wealthier than lowsec. Aegisov sucks for people who deal with it like Dominionsov. For those that adapt, it's mostly good. It's not perfect but it's certainly better.
    I'm not sure many lowsec alliances care about wealth that much though. Having isk is secondary to having fun for pretty every lowsec resident I know.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  7. #367

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    And where are all of these players to fill up nullsec going to come from?
    They're already there
    You're like Mittens with his "the CFC dying would be bad for EVE because we have so many players"
    Almost nobody in nullsec started the game in the alliance that they're in now, or would leave the game if their alliance died. They've all come from somewhere else, and if something happened to the alliance they're in, they'd go somewhere else.
    Dominion sov incentivised coalescing into giant alliances and holding large areas of space, because the extra effort to defend extra systems didn't scale well (if you had enough supers and dudes to defend one system, you could defend 50 systems).
    It doesn't have to be that way though. I remember moving into Branch in 2012 with C0nvicted. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Branch/2012-02-01. There were four alliances (plus some goon space) in a region that now only contains one. The population of the region is about the same as it was back then, there are just less separate entities. Branch could be active and busy with regional conflicts, if the CFC weren't so busy clinging to the old ways and starving themselves of content. Just give Fozzie sov time.



    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    The biggest problem with fozziesov is nullsec is not an attractive option.
    I don't know what alliance you're in, since you don't have it in your location, but have you been in a small alliance in nullsec post-Fozzie sov?
    I've got to say, Cloud Ring in L3THL was pretty good. We had enemies in our own region and next door, it was a whole seven jumps to our main rivals home system, and content literally came to our doorstep. We ended up dying because BL came for the content, but were bigger than everyone else in the region put together, so basically shut down the region until they starved to death and died, and then the Goon AUTZ squad came down and did the same thing (except they didn't die, we did).
    So, we were killed by two groups that clung to the old ways so tightly that it killed one of them, and the other, we'll see ...

  8. #368

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    Low sec is never going to null sec. The wealth doesn't matter. They can setup alts in WHs, incursions or chain level 5s. A few bill in moons doesn't mean much.

    The population of the game is shrinking. In low sec that doesn't matter since it's so dense. But in null sec? Good luck m8s. You reap what you sow.

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesbones View Post
    Snuff+Co and SC+Co is never going to null sec. The wealth doesn't matter. They can setup alts in WHs, incursions or chain level 5s. A few bill in moons doesn't mean much.
    Sorry to say differently than what you believe, but there is more to Lowsec than just Snuff+Pets and SC+Pets. Just because those two groups seem content with bluing/recruiting as many people as possible for their 'Forever War' doesn't mean that the rest of lowsec will follow suit.

    Many smaller groups would love to have an actual chance at Nullsec. Sure you can make more ISK afk HS-incursioning, but that doesn't put your name on the map. You don't gain some 'Fortress ____' by running the occasional Level 5 mission. A big reason a lot of these groups don't delve right into Null isn't because it's not attractive to them, it's because it's not feasible. If you want to take space and hold it, you most likely either need lots of pilots or lots of SP + ISK. Small High-Lowsec groups don't have those options available to them. They don't have Titan chains to move around the region, they don't have supercarrier shields to project force against the bigger players. So you're left with 2 options: 1.) Stay where you are and roam around for hours hoping you'll find a fight against someone of similar size or 2.) Join the bigger group that has a slightly better chance at hitting that goal. What do you end up with? SC+Snuff in lowsec and the big blocs in Nullsec.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonesbones View Post
    The population of the game is shrinking. In low sec that doesn't matter since it's so dense. But in null sec? Good luck m8s. You reap what you sow.
    Ever thought that maybe the population of the game is shrinking because all the reasons people stay around just aren't there anymore? What's the point in playing if your group isn't 'big' enough to take the Sov you want? What's the point in subbing if 90% of your fights are going to end with you against 10x the numbers unless you join that massive group? Why undock when the other 799 people in your alliance will get things done without effort as is? Maybe if CCP actually tackled Sov with a way that really, truly hurt the big players, you'd see numbers rise again as people came back to play with their friends in their small groups, instead of being part of some brainless army lead by some retard with a webstie.

    Infact Jones, I'd think you'd know this pretty well first hand. Why is your Eve career now limited to spewing the same nonsense across FHC/Reddit/etc? It couldn't dare be because you're bored of flying with 799 other people that will get the job done just as well with or without you, fighting the same people you've fought for years, and watching as your alliance gobbles up as many lowsec groups as they can, could it be?
    Last edited by SelinaHavoc; November 24 2015 at 04:23:16 PM.
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  10. #370

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    Quote Originally Posted by SelinaHavoc View Post
    Ever thought that maybe the population of the game is shrinking because all the reasons people stay around just aren't there anymore? What's the point in playing if your group isn't 'big' enough to take the Sov you want? What's the point in subbing if 90% of your fights are going to end with you against 10x the numbers unless you join that massive group? Why undock when the other 799 people in your alliance will get things done without effort as is? Maybe if CCP actually tackled Sov with a way that really, truly hurt the big players, you'd see numbers rise again as people came back to play with their friends in their small groups, instead of being part of some brainless army lead by some retard with a webstie.

    Infact Jones, I'd think you'd know this pretty well first hand. Why is your Eve career now limited to spewing the same nonsense across FHC/Reddit/etc? It couldn't dare be because you're bored of flying with 799 other people that will get the job done just as well with or without you, fighting the same people you've fought for years, and watching as your alliance gobbles up as many lowsec groups as they can, could it be?
    - There has never been a compelling reason to take sov outside of planting your flag and/or renting it out. Never. I remember people complaining that everyone in null sec had alts to run level 4s. Now instead of level 4s it's incursions or WHs or something else. Null sec Sov is top down money, always has been (moons, renting, supercap production).

    - Null sec sov has ALWAYS been a case of big boys. Who owned the entire map before Aegis/Phoebe? Goons/N3/Provi/Russians. Now it's a smattering of all kinds of tards. With Goons, Provi and Rus still holding the largest "empires".

    - Who is fighting 10x numbers? I mean fuck, even when N3 or OOS fights the CFC it's like 2-3x the numbers. When was the last time CFC rolled up 4+ full fleets? The purge of Delve?

    My EVE career spans from 2004 until a month ago. During that time I built ships for the Five, I held the gates in NOL, I small ganged in Syndicate, I sold my chars for RL isk and quit, I came back, I learned the art of small gang and solo in low sec, I helped create the most active PVP alliance in low sec and watched as it crumbled under the weight of its own ego, I reforged Heretics into a fun and active PVP corp, I quit EVE again, I came back and bounced around low sec while FCing and taking part in battles, skirmishes, capital escalations and super battles. Then I quit again.

    Guess what. I didn't quit because my alliance got blobby and the little guy can't hack it in null sec. I quit because EVE takes a time commitment I no longer have. And that sir, is why EVE is struggling. EVE needs new blood. The premier FCs in EVE shouldn't be the same dudes from 5 years ago. Because those dudes aren't as active anymore. I don't have 2-3 hours a night to lead roams and respond to pings. EVE isn't dying. But it's struggling because its population is aging and having less time for one of the most time consuming games on the market.

    PS. What's stopping you from taking space? No really, what's stopping you? Look at the god damn sov map you autistic fucker. It's full of non-blobby groups taking a few constellations and making it home. Yeah they'll never stop big bad meanie Goon or PL from evicting them. But in what fucking shit tier world that you want should they? Sorry bro. But if I have 100 dudes and PL comes with 200 supers I'm fucked. If I have 100 dudes and CFC comes with 500 dudes I'm fucked. That's how war works. That's ok. Move. Rebuild. Guerilla campaign. Stop being such a whiney fucking cunt.

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesbones View Post
    - There has never been a compelling reason to take sov outside of planting your flag and/or renting it out. Never. I remember people complaining that everyone in null sec had alts to run level 4s. Now instead of level 4s it's incursions or WHs or something else. Null sec Sov is top down money, always has been (moons, renting, supercap production).
    I'd argue that having the opportunity to plant your flag and put your name on the map is a rather large compelling reason. Having your name on the map is probably the most compelling reason for anyone in Eve to do anything that really matters.

    All of those things became top down money due to the fact that it's a massive bloc holding onto these things. Outside of SRP, how do you actually reimburse your line members? That money gets put towards reimbursement and your line members get a better piece of the ratting pie. Imagine if those groups weren't nearly as large. Everyone has a role then, and everyone gets reimbursed rightly for their role. You took the time to fuel the PoS? Here's x amount of ISK. You set up a supply chain for the alliance? Here's x amount of ISK. When you're not a massive alliance with hundreds to thousands of members gasping their gills at you, you have more freedom to deliver the isk to those who worked for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonesbones View Post
    Null sec sov has ALWAYS been a case of big boys. Who owned the entire map before Aegis/Phoebe? Goons/N3/Provi/Russians. Now it's a smattering of all kinds of tards. With Goons, Provi and Rus still holding the largest "empires".
    Yes, it always has been. And why is that? When it's not feasible (and before Aegis/Phoebe, almost impossible) to take Sov as a group without supers and most of your alliance having capital alts, you join the bigger group. This cycle just feeds into itself until there is nothing left but boredom and blocs, and that's what we have. A half a dozen massive groups owning the entire map, and if anyone seriously contends the fringe of their space, they get shut down almost immediately.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonesbones View Post
    Who is fighting 10x numbers? I mean fuck, even when N3 or OOS fights the CFC it's like 2-3x the numbers. When was the last time CFC rolled up 4+ full fleets? The purge of Delve?
    The little groups are. My Alliance has 20 active pilots across all TZs, and in a good night, we can field maybe 12-14 people. With 3 or 4 of those being my alts, it's not hard to find groups with 10x the numbers to stomp you down. Just because every group doesn't have 500+ people or 250+ active pilots doesn't mean smaller groups don't exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonesbones View Post
    EVE needs new blood. The premier FCs in EVE shouldn't be the same dudes from 5 years ago.
    Those FC's are the same ones sitting atop their massive Alliances raking in tons of ISK with no competition. Why would they give up their spots to some new blood? So what does that leave you? These little groups that start out with new blood, new players, that can never hope to become anything worthwhile because they can't get sov or amass hundreds of pilots and put their name on the board.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonesbones View Post
    PS. What's stopping you from taking space?
    Again, you can't just assume everyone can willfully amass pilots to their will. Even in the Sov regions around me is held by alliances with 60+ active members. That's over 4x the amount of pilots I can pull on a good night, which is once in a blue moon. Not all of us have Reddit movements to recruit thousands of players to do our bidding.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonesbones View Post
    Stop being such a whiney fucking cunt.
    The irony of this is so unreal. I don't think you've had a single post on any forum since you left Eve that wasn't some crying shitstorm about the state of lowsec or the state of Eve. It's almost embarrassing how much shit talking and crying you do over a game you don't even play anymore. While my posts might come off as 'whiney' or 'complaing', at-least there is some general merit behind it coming from a smaller Alliance that just wants to help his alliance grow. All you do is moan and complain about things you're not even involved in.
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  12. #372

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    You're entire argument boils down to finding a way to make it easier for 12 dudes to take and hold space. 12 dudes couldn't even fully use a single system. K m8. War thread so I'll stop postin' here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesbones View Post
    You're entire argument boils down to finding a way to make it easier for 12 dudes to take and hold space. 12 dudes couldn't even fully use a single system. K m8. War thread so I'll stop postin' here.
    How is 12 dudes holding 1 system any better/worse than a 539 pilot alliance holding 56 systems? Do you really think they use all 56?

  14. #374
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    Regardless of whether you like fozziesov's goals in theory, in practice its just horribly executed mechanic wise and doesnt meet any of the stated objectives CCP had for its design.

    Like what part of fozziesov being un-fun at any fleet scale is so confusing to get? If a falcon decloaks, jams the entoser, and resets the progress on a 30 min node, its equally as un-fun for the 5 man gang sitting guarding that node as it is for the 50 man gang. What about when your enemy rocks up in 20 arty claws and just ganks your entosis ships while your fleet sits around and watch because they cant be remote repped? The design is systemically flawed from start to finish.

    Humans are rational, and they like to win. Amen for that. Too bad fozziesov just incentivizes people to exploit unfun cancerous gameplay to win. If people are serious about winning an objective and not just forcing a response, they are going to fight to win and not give a fuck about "good fights" at any scale. For an organized group with a strategic objective to take, EVE and IRL history has PROVEN that winning is way more fun and satisfying than idealized dank orthrus vs orthrus brawls on a node. Yeah its a game and games are supposed to be fun, but its also a sandbox and I dont remember reading about the Soviet army holding half their army in reserve in WW2 so the germans didnt shitpost about them blobbing on reddit and ruining fights. Heres a thought: maybe people have fun doing things PVP wise in EVE other than micro gang brawls?

    Sov was supposed to be the apex of end-game content for groups to organize themselves and fight for a visible end result--the proverbial "your alliance name on the map". The mechanic that CCP implements to facilitate these wars shouldnt be designed around trying to replicate casual or roaming content found in other play styles of the game.

    "EVE: the only game everyone is playing wrong but you"

    I completely disagree with the premise that a large portion of the player base should be PUNISHED because they play EVE in a way I dont personally like. What if I said they should remove wormholes from the game because I hate that roamers can just appear in my space without warning from Thera?! The nerve of those theraboyz killing our renters!! Its insufferable! Sorry I dont believe that in reality you can change a major portion of the game to be super unfun and all of a sudden everyone will conform to your idealized play style, and the game will be revived. Real life, those people just play other games where they can have fun their way. Theres no shortage of competition for a computer gamer's time, its not like its EVE or nothing.

    I'm not going to sit here and claim that one gameplay in a sandbox is inherently superior to another.

    What I am putting forward is the politically neutral statement that the mechanics for sov warfare are poorly designed, poorly executed, and not fun. And for a game that we are paying every month to play, thats not healthy.

  15. #375

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    And when XIX, Nulli, and PL would blob you out you did in fact complain about wormholes. You also complained repeatedly here and other places about blob warfare, and claimed TRI was fighting to be something different, yet now here you are complaining that you can't be the blob you railed so hard against. I am not trying to make this personal as I do like you, but the reason we have fozziesov is because almost everyone complained about either the NC/PL super blob, or 2k Baltecs being unbeatable. Now that we have Fozzisov everyone wants to talk about how great it was, and how many awesome fights were had. I still say none of the fights that make the big news, the ones everyone knows and remembers, were over a TCU, IHUB, or station timer, so why do we want to act like sov warfare was so great a year or two ago?

  16. #376
    Garst Tyrell's Avatar
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    Civil you are still unwilling or incapable of separating feedback on a politically neutral game mechanic that affects anyone big/small/blob/independent who wants to fight over sov from your desire to make out anyone who likes big battles not microgang brawls the enemy

    Is it possible that if dominion sov was such a bad gameplay, fozziesov is too?

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    Sure they could both have their bad aspects...but that doesn't mean aegis sov isn't better than dominion sov. At the very least let's do something different/new. The simple fact that 0.0 went from just being CFC vs N3/PL to dozens and dozens of alliances fighting one another proves that it's at least somewhat better and more dynamic than dominion sov.
    "Last night I saw upon the stair
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  18. #378

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garst Tyrell View Post
    Civil you are still unwilling or incapable of separating feedback on a politically neutral game mechanic that affects anyone big/small/blob/independent who wants to fight over sov from your desire to make out anyone who likes big battles not microgang brawls the enemy

    Is it possible that if dominion sov was such a bad gameplay, fozziesov is too?
    That is laughable. Yes, I was in PL, TRI, BL, TRI again, and now SC because I love to microgang. I don't think Fozziesov is the best thing ever, but I also put much of that blame on the players. You have how many neutral entities capable of fighting you within say 30 jumps? My guess is one, at least until you finish pushing RA out of Insmother. What if you weren't blue with Advent, Blood Covenant, and the other almost 30k pilots you are blue with? My guess is you would have more people to fight these epic fights against, no? What if instead of being somewhat forced to be blue with NC and PL to kick out Red Menace you still had to fight them? Aegis sov is not the only thing to blame for your lack of fights. You blued too many of the people willing and able to give you said fights. Reset everyone, and I bet you will go back to complaining about the blob and blue donut instead of lack of content.

    Taking sov should be hard, especially when it is sov you don't really want or need. Taking sov from someone who doesn't really live there, and doesn't care about it should be easy. I think Aegis sov is somewhat successful on both counts. Does that mean I think it is perfect? Of course not, but I don't think it is anywhere near as bad as everyone is making it out to be when compared to the past 2 sov systems.

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    Also, if sov is such shit now why are you not only still there doing it, but taking more when you don't use or rent what you already have? There is an easy solution to sov mechanics being shit, stop putting entosis links on ships in your fleets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CivilWars View Post
    Also, if sov is such shit now why are you not only still there doing it, but taking more when you don't use or rent what you already have? There is an easy solution to sov mechanics being shit, stop putting entosis links on ships in your fleets.
    Maybe they want fights? Why are Snuff and Shadow killing each other over moons? Do you seriously think that Snuff lost 100bil in one fight just because they wanted that Cadmium really badly?

    Garst what if they would add some way for you to DPS the node? Like on citadels where DPS is capped at 4k ?
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