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Thread: Payday 2

  1. #121
    Davion Falcon's Avatar
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    Comments like ^ are the reason I haven't bought yet. Game looks fun etc, but I cannot help wonder if the grind for upgrades/skill points/etc is merely a smokescreen to cover up boring mechanics/endgame.
    "We need less dakka dakka!" -No one. Ever.

  2. #122
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davion Falcon View Post
    Comments like ^ are the reason I haven't bought yet. Game looks fun etc, but I cannot help wonder if the grind for upgrades/skill points/etc is merely a smokescreen to cover up boring mechanics/endgame.
    The reason is that my family must be using my home pc atm so i'd rather not have them on irc hum.

  3. #123
    Xenosis's sister
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davion Falcon View Post
    Comments like ^ are the reason I haven't bought yet. Game looks fun etc, but I cannot help wonder if the grind for upgrades/skill points/etc is merely a smokescreen to cover up boring mechanics/endgame.
    The main issue right now is that the looting mechanism sucks. Since loot is random, the best you can do is more missions for more chances. Lower mission difficulty supposedly doesn't affect loot tables but definitely allows for faster missions (i.e., 3 bags versus 8 bags), so slamming through the lowest difficulty missions is the best way to unlock the things you want.

    Unfortunately, speed grinding exacerbates other problems with the game. Since there are quantifiably better missions, you miss out playing other (enjoyable) maps in the name of efficiency or finally having the gear to play the way you want. While spamming Jewelry Store and Four Stores, you'll quickly realize the mission select is total garbage since a) you can't select the mission you want if it didn't randomly spawn, and b) even you get the mission you want, difficulty is also randomly assigned. This leads to constantly opening and closing the map to manipulate spawns, ideally by all four players in your group to hopefully spend less time finding the mission than doing it for once.

    You could argue that it's all our fault for min-maxing or not being satisfied to play as is or whatever, but it affects "normal" players too. Want to try a certain map you've never done before? Too bad. Bringing a buddy into the game and want a lower difficulty? Shouldn't have recruited a scrub. Gearing towards a particular playstyle? Have a jumble of unrelated crap. Want ANYTHING that works with ANY gun you have? Fuck you, and have a silencer that works with literally every gun BUT the ones you have.
    Last edited by Minion; August 6 2013 at 09:53:41 AM.

  4. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minion View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Davion Falcon View Post
    Comments like ^ are the reason I haven't bought yet. Game looks fun etc, but I cannot help wonder if the grind for upgrades/skill points/etc is merely a smokescreen to cover up boring mechanics/endgame.
    The main issue right now is that the looting mechanism sucks. Since loot is random, the best you can do is more missions for more chances. Lower mission difficulty supposedly doesn't affect loot tables but definitely allows for faster missions (i.e., 3 bags versus 8 bags), so slamming through the lowest difficulty missions is the best way to unlock the things you want.

    Unfortunately, speed grinding exacerbates other problems with the game. Since there are quantifiably better missions, you miss out playing other (enjoyable) maps in the name of efficiency or finally having the gear to play the way you want. While spamming Jewelry Store and Four Stores, you'll quickly realize the mission select is total garbage since a) you can't select the mission you want if it didn't randomly spawn, and b) even you get the mission you want, difficulty is also randomly assigned. This leads to constantly opening and closing the map to manipulate spawns, ideally by all four players in your group to hopefully spend less time finding the mission than doing it for once.

    You could argue that it's all our fault for min-maxing or not being satisfied to play as is or whatever, but it affects "normal" players too. Want to try a certain map you've never done before? Too bad. Bringing a buddy into the game and want a lower difficulty? Shouldn't have recruited a scrub. Gearing towards a particular playstyle? Have a jumble of unrelated crap. Want ANYTHING that works with ANY gun you have? Fuck you, and have a silencer that works with literally every gun BUT the ones you have.
    i'm with the "give card + payout for each day of a multiday heist" crod

    alternatively, give multiple cards(!) for higher difficulty.

    or some permutation thereof

    edit: maybe something like this?

    1 day heists: 1 card for normal/hard
    2 cards for very hard/overkill

    multi day heists: 1 card per day that isn't the last day
    1 + 1/ skull card on final day

    so for a multi day it would be
    number of days + number of skulls cards
    single day heists would be
    ceiling(skulls/2)
    Last edited by jbend9620; August 6 2013 at 10:17:59 AM.

  5. #125
    big diiiiiiiiick Movember 2012Donor Dark Flare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minion View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Davion Falcon View Post
    Comments like ^ are the reason I haven't bought yet. Game looks fun etc, but I cannot help wonder if the grind for upgrades/skill points/etc is merely a smokescreen to cover up boring mechanics/endgame.
    The main issue right now is that the looting mechanism sucks. Since loot is random, the best you can do is more missions for more chances. Lower mission difficulty supposedly doesn't affect loot tables but definitely allows for faster missions (i.e., 3 bags versus 8 bags), so slamming through the lowest difficulty missions is the best way to unlock the things you want.

    Unfortunately, speed grinding exacerbates other problems with the game. Since there are quantifiably better missions, you miss out playing other (enjoyable) maps in the name of efficiency or finally having the gear to play the way you want. While spamming Jewelry Store and Four Stores, you'll quickly realize the mission select is total garbage since a) you can't select the mission you want if it didn't randomly spawn, and b) even you get the mission you want, difficulty is also randomly assigned. This leads to constantly opening and closing the map to manipulate spawns, ideally by all four players in your group to hopefully spend less time finding the mission than doing it for once.

    You could argue that it's all our fault for min-maxing or not being satisfied to play as is or whatever, but it affects "normal" players too. Want to try a certain map you've never done before? Too bad. Bringing a buddy into the game and want a lower difficulty? Shouldn't have recruited a scrub. Gearing towards a particular playstyle? Have a jumble of unrelated crap. Want ANYTHING that works with ANY gun you have? Fuck you, and have a silencer that works with literally every gun BUT the ones you have.
    I'm reasonably sure you get less good drops from easier missions.

    Also the card system is way better than it was in original beta. It's more heavily weighted to unlocks for things you actually have now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amantus
    whats tyhe appear of a shnitifuck cu nt eve onlio9ne corpotraTION DICKOLHEAD FUCKIN AS

  6. #126
    Xenosis's sister
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Flare View Post
    I'm reasonably sure you get less good drops from easier missions.

    Also the card system is way better than it was in original beta. It's more heavily weighted to unlocks for things you actually have now.
    Doesn't matter if it's better than before when it still sucks and encourages poor and unengaging gameplay. There's zero doubt the current looting mechanism has huge and detrimental ripple effects on the rest of the game, as above.

    Also, if it must be random drop, let me say "I want stuff for x gun" or at least "I want stuff in x category for any gun, even if I don't have it" to help me pursue the type of play I'm interested in. It doesn't even have to be an explicit statement, instead running off gameplay statistics that imply what I want by what I'm using and doing (Super Awesome Gun -> stuff for Super Awesome Gun, silencers -> more silencers, etc).

  7. #127
    big diiiiiiiiick Movember 2012Donor Dark Flare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minion View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Flare View Post
    I'm reasonably sure you get less good drops from easier missions.

    Also the card system is way better than it was in original beta. It's more heavily weighted to unlocks for things you actually have now.
    Doesn't matter if it's better than before when it still sucks and encourages poor and unengaging gameplay. There's zero doubt the current looting mechanism has huge and detrimental ripple effects on the rest of the game, as above.

    Also, if it must be random drop, let me say "I want stuff for x gun" or at least "I want stuff in x category for any gun, even if I don't have it" to help me pursue the type of play I'm interested in. It doesn't even have to be an explicit statement, instead running off gameplay statistics that imply what I want by what I'm using and doing (Super Awesome Gun -> stuff for Super Awesome Gun, silencers -> more silencers, etc).
    But having those attachments isn't a necessity, is it? Especially given you get a silencer after your first mission guaranteed now. I don't really see a problem in it maybe taking a while to get stuff you want (but don't need). You seem to be treating it as "Oh I HAVE to have these things and I'm not getting them as fast as I want" instead of "Oh cool, sometimes I get shit that makes my setup cooler"
    Quote Originally Posted by Amantus
    whats tyhe appear of a shnitifuck cu nt eve onlio9ne corpotraTION DICKOLHEAD FUCKIN AS

  8. #128
    Xenosis's sister
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Flare View Post
    But having those attachments isn't a necessity, is it? Especially given you get a silencer after your first mission guaranteed now. I don't really see a problem in it maybe taking a while to get stuff you want (but don't need). You seem to be treating it as "Oh I HAVE to have these things and I'm not getting them as fast as I want" instead of "Oh cool, sometimes I get shit that makes my setup cooler"
    It's not that I'm impatient or feel entitled to the mods I want, but that I'm completely helpless to influence what I get and so any attempt at a specific playstyle is a complete crapshoot. And again, I'm not just arguing that getting irrelevant loot sucks, but more importantly that the consequences of the overall system drag down the rest of the game.

  9. #129
    big diiiiiiiiick Movember 2012Donor Dark Flare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minion View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Flare View Post
    But having those attachments isn't a necessity, is it? Especially given you get a silencer after your first mission guaranteed now. I don't really see a problem in it maybe taking a while to get stuff you want (but don't need). You seem to be treating it as "Oh I HAVE to have these things and I'm not getting them as fast as I want" instead of "Oh cool, sometimes I get shit that makes my setup cooler"
    It's not that I'm impatient or feel entitled to the mods I want, but that I'm completely helpless to influence what I get and so any attempt at a specific playstyle is a complete crapshoot. And again, I'm not just arguing that getting irrelevant loot sucks, but more importantly that the consequences of the overall system drag down the rest of the game.
    It doesn't affect the rest of the game though. The only reason to have anything other than a silencer is for coolness and a little bit more power (which is completely unnecessary, at least for the current set of heists). It's like complaining that you never get the hat you want from TF2 drops. It doesn't matter.

    What playstyle are you claiming it stops you from.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amantus
    whats tyhe appear of a shnitifuck cu nt eve onlio9ne corpotraTION DICKOLHEAD FUCKIN AS

  10. #130
    Davion Falcon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minion View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Davion Falcon View Post
    Comments like ^ are the reason I haven't bought yet. Game looks fun etc, but I cannot help wonder if the grind for upgrades/skill points/etc is merely a smokescreen to cover up boring mechanics/endgame.
    The main issue right now is that the looting mechanism sucks. Since loot is random, the best you can do is more missions for more chances. Lower mission difficulty supposedly doesn't affect loot tables but definitely allows for faster missions (i.e., 3 bags versus 8 bags), so slamming through the lowest difficulty missions is the best way to unlock the things you want.

    Unfortunately, speed grinding exacerbates other problems with the game. Since there are quantifiably better missions, you miss out playing other (enjoyable) maps in the name of efficiency or finally having the gear to play the way you want. While spamming Jewelry Store and Four Stores, you'll quickly realize the mission select is total garbage since a) you can't select the mission you want if it didn't randomly spawn, and b) even you get the mission you want, difficulty is also randomly assigned. This leads to constantly opening and closing the map to manipulate spawns, ideally by all four players in your group to hopefully spend less time finding the mission than doing it for once.

    You could argue that it's all our fault for min-maxing or not being satisfied to play as is or whatever, but it affects "normal" players too. Want to try a certain map you've never done before? Too bad. Bringing a buddy into the game and want a lower difficulty? Shouldn't have recruited a scrub. Gearing towards a particular playstyle? Have a jumble of unrelated crap. Want ANYTHING that works with ANY gun you have? Fuck you, and have a silencer that works with literally every gun BUT the ones you have.
    $30/50 isn't good enough to be able to tacticool whatever weapon you want? Play whichever map and difficulty level? I thought the point of the game was to play with buddies, not engage in a grind with random scrubs. I mean, lets fast forward 60-80/howeverfucking many hours to the point where you've got all the weapons/gear available, would you still want to play it? Is the gameplay itself that engaging/fun?
    "We need less dakka dakka!" -No one. Ever.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davion Falcon View Post
    $30/50 isn't good enough to be able to tacticool whatever weapon you want? Play whichever map and difficulty level? I thought the point of the game was to play with buddies, not engage in a grind with random scrubs. I mean, lets fast forward 60-80/howeverfucking many hours to the point where you've got all the weapons/gear available, would you still want to play it? Is the gameplay itself that engaging/fun?
    Playing with buddies is exactly the point. Listening to them get genuinely frustrated after opening and closing the luck-based map a dozen times a minute for literally quarter of an hour because we don't randomly get the mission and difficulty we want is completely opposite the point. I don't know about you, but I'd prefer actually playing the more interesting scenarios on the hardest difficulty instead of spending more time finding missions than I do completing them. But fuck choice, reliability, and usability, right?

  12. #132
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    I think that settles it for me. I've still got L4D2 that's still fun to play and doesn't have some annoying leveling/loot system to Skinner Box gameplay.

    If it goes through unchanged I'd buy it for $10, not for $30 and certainly not $50.
    "We need less dakka dakka!" -No one. Ever.

  13. #133
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    It's pretty fun if you are organised. The biggest problem I have had so far since the update/reset is that I actually haven't finished a game, out of a dozen or so played I have always got "connection to host has been lost" or "host has disconnected", means I'm still rank 0 rather than 10 or so, and I get the "oh shit a rank 0 n00b" treatment when I join a game.


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  14. #134
    big diiiiiiiiick Movember 2012Donor Dark Flare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davion Falcon View Post
    I think that settles it for me. I've still got L4D2 that's still fun to play and doesn't have some annoying leveling/loot system to Skinner Box gameplay.

    If it goes through unchanged I'd buy it for $10, not for $30 and certainly not $50.
    Game is great, Minion is just a negative Nancy
    Quote Originally Posted by Amantus
    whats tyhe appear of a shnitifuck cu nt eve onlio9ne corpotraTION DICKOLHEAD FUCKIN AS

  15. #135
    big diiiiiiiiick Movember 2012Donor Dark Flare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Marram View Post
    It's pretty fun if you are organised. The biggest problem I have had so far since the update/reset is that I actually haven't finished a game, out of a dozen or so played I have always got "connection to host has been lost" or "host has disconnected", means I'm still rank 0 rather than 10 or so, and I get the "oh shit a rank 0 n00b" treatment when I join a game.

    At least do the safe house so you get ammo bag / medic bag
    Quote Originally Posted by Amantus
    whats tyhe appear of a shnitifuck cu nt eve onlio9ne corpotraTION DICKOLHEAD FUCKIN AS

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minion View Post
    Playing with buddies is exactly the point. Listening to them get genuinely frustrated after opening and closing the luck-based map a dozen times a minute for literally quarter of an hour because we don't randomly get the mission and difficulty we want is completely opposite the point. I don't know about you, but I'd prefer actually playing the more interesting scenarios on the hardest difficulty instead of spending more time finding missions than I do completing them. But fuck choice, reliability, and usability, right?

  17. #137
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    "Payday 2 gets profitable before launch, covered by pre-orders"

    http://www.gamechup.com/payday-2-bec...by-pre-orders/
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  18. #138
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    Played some missions yesterday with a buddy, but instead of going all shooty we went ninja stealhy and it was some wicked fun working out all the strategies for the different missions. Really cool to see that there is whole other side to this game i haven't known yet. That said, in all fairness I think that stealth is kinda imbalanced right now because with 2 guys and training you can do pretty much all the stealthable missions on overkill in under 10 mintues, which is just ridicolous compared to the overkill shooty version, which basically wipes a full lvl 30 geared, specced group in no time.

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  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minion View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Davion Falcon View Post
    Comments like ^ are the reason I haven't bought yet. Game looks fun etc, but I cannot help wonder if the grind for upgrades/skill points/etc is merely a smokescreen to cover up boring mechanics/endgame.
    The main issue right now is that the looting mechanism sucks. Since loot is random, the best you can do is more missions for more chances. Lower mission difficulty supposedly doesn't affect loot tables but definitely allows for faster missions (i.e., 3 bags versus 8 bags), so slamming through the lowest difficulty missions is the best way to unlock the things you want.

    Unfortunately, speed grinding exacerbates other problems with the game. Since there are quantifiably better missions, you miss out playing other (enjoyable) maps in the name of efficiency or finally having the gear to play the way you want. While spamming Jewelry Store and Four Stores, you'll quickly realize the mission select is total garbage since a) you can't select the mission you want if it didn't randomly spawn, and b) even you get the mission you want, difficulty is also randomly assigned. This leads to constantly opening and closing the map to manipulate spawns, ideally by all four players in your group to hopefully spend less time finding the mission than doing it for once.

    You could argue that it's all our fault for min-maxing or not being satisfied to play as is or whatever, but it affects "normal" players too. Want to try a certain map you've never done before? Too bad. Bringing a buddy into the game and want a lower difficulty? Shouldn't have recruited a scrub. Gearing towards a particular playstyle? Have a jumble of unrelated crap. Want ANYTHING that works with ANY gun you have? Fuck you, and have a silencer that works with literally every gun BUT the ones you have.
    Minion is 100% correct and Dark Flare is wrong as always, as hes always been. His fucking ineptitude is the crux of why most things suck ass. Games have to pander to him being a retard and if they don't they're not "market friendly." I was just on the receiving end of this game fucking me quite ardently right in the ass hole. Leveled to 30, game "forgot," and was like, "hey buddy we have an updated save for you!" Sure why not? Fuck you, we're gonna reset you 20 levels and 1 million dollars, woopsy daisy. We're only days away from launch but I'm sure that won't deter you from buying our product. Sorry game, you can eat a bag of dicks and fuck right off. The most precious resource is time and when you take that from me, guess what, I'm not going to give you my money.

    What Dumb Flare clearly does not understand is that, other people enjoy this game in a different manner than himself. Once its been made quite clear hes not listening to anyone's opinion, why even argue? There's no middle ground or middle ground insight to be had. We try to communicate, he says, "fuck off," in not so many terms, well then, fuck you too buddy.

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