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Thread: Political Shots Fired Thread

  1. #22801
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    You really need to stop trying to project apartheid south africa onto the current situation in the USA Erich. The material and social reality are completely different.

    The racism present in the USA is vastly more dependent upon economic class and is not comparable to fucking apartheid.

  2. #22802
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    You really need to stop trying to project apartheid south africa onto the current situation in the USA Erich. The material and social reality are completely different.

    The racism present in the USA is vastly more dependent upon economic class and is not comparable to fucking apartheid.
    Apartheid was an economic system, first and foremost.

    The only real difference is that we didn't promise the oppressed freedom and then not deliver.
    meh

  3. #22803
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    You really need to stop trying to project apartheid south africa onto the current situation in the USA Erich. The material and social reality are completely different.

    The racism present in the USA is vastly more dependent upon economic class and is not comparable to fucking apartheid.
    Apartheid was an economic system, first and foremost.

    The only real difference is that we didn't promise the oppressed freedom and then not deliver.
    And yet despite ending that horrific system, economic inequality has only gotten worse in Saffa if reports are to be believed.

    Could it be that the real problems in societies that have systemic racism are economic and not racial? No, that's class reductionist.

  4. #22804
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    You really need to stop trying to project apartheid south africa onto the current situation in the USA Erich. The material and social reality are completely different.

    The racism present in the USA is vastly more dependent upon economic class and is not comparable to fucking apartheid.
    Apartheid was an economic system, first and foremost.

    The only real difference is that we didn't promise the oppressed freedom and then not deliver.
    And yet despite ending that horrific system, economic inequality has only gotten worse in Saffa if reports are to be believed.

    Could it be that the real problems in societies that have systemic racism are economic and not racial? No, that's class reductionist.
    one does not exclude the other.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  5. #22805
    Movember 2012 Stoffl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    You really need to stop trying to project apartheid south africa onto LITERALLY EVERYTHING EVER, IN EVERY POST.
    fyp

  6. #22806
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    You really need to stop trying to project apartheid south africa onto the current situation in the USA Erich. The material and social reality are completely different.

    The racism present in the USA is vastly more dependent upon economic class and is not comparable to fucking apartheid.
    Apartheid was an economic system, first and foremost.

    The only real difference is that we didn't promise the oppressed freedom and then not deliver.
    And yet despite ending that horrific system, economic inequality has only gotten worse in Saffa if reports are to be believed.

    Could it be that the real problems in societies that have systemic racism are economic and not racial? No, that's class reductionist.
    one does not exclude the other.
    It has nothing to do with "excluding the other"

    Systemic racism and racialist identity politics are two sides of the same coin. They are simply a way to keep the proles from uniting and focused on tearing each other apart instead of the ruling class. It's working beautifully.

  7. #22807
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    You really need to stop trying to project apartheid south africa onto the current situation in the USA Erich. The material and social reality are completely different.

    The racism present in the USA is vastly more dependent upon economic class and is not comparable to fucking apartheid.
    Apartheid was an economic system, first and foremost.

    The only real difference is that we didn't promise the oppressed freedom and then not deliver.
    And yet despite ending that horrific system, economic inequality has only gotten worse in Saffa if reports are to be believed.

    Could it be that the real problems in societies that have systemic racism are economic and not racial? No, that's class reductionist.
    What would you call 80 years of committed "separate economic and education development" where the state spent different levels of money on things for different racial groups of people then?
    meh

  8. #22808
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    You really need to stop trying to project apartheid south africa onto the current situation in the USA Erich. The material and social reality are completely different.

    The racism present in the USA is vastly more dependent upon economic class and is not comparable to fucking apartheid.
    Apartheid was an economic system, first and foremost.

    The only real difference is that we didn't promise the oppressed freedom and then not deliver.
    And yet despite ending that horrific system, economic inequality has only gotten worse in Saffa if reports are to be believed.

    Could it be that the real problems in societies that have systemic racism are economic and not racial? No, that's class reductionist.
    What would you call 80 years of committed "separate economic and education development" where the state spent different levels of money on things for different racial groups of people then?
    Irrelevant isn't it? Apartheid ended so everything should be improving in South Africa since all of it's problems were because of apartheid and racism. Economic opportunities and social mobility for black people should be absolutely amazing right now. Oh wait, it isn't? Really makes you think.

  9. #22809
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    You really need to stop trying to project apartheid south africa onto the current situation in the USA Erich. The material and social reality are completely different.

    The racism present in the USA is vastly more dependent upon economic class and is not comparable to fucking apartheid.
    Apartheid was an economic system, first and foremost.

    The only real difference is that we didn't promise the oppressed freedom and then not deliver.
    And yet despite ending that horrific system, economic inequality has only gotten worse in Saffa if reports are to be believed.

    Could it be that the real problems in societies that have systemic racism are economic and not racial? No, that's class reductionist.
    What would you call 80 years of committed "separate economic and education development" where the state spent different levels of money on things for different racial groups of people then?
    Irrelevant isn't it? Apartheid ended so everything should be improving in South Africa since all of it's problems were because of apartheid and racism. Economic opportunities and social mobility for black people should be absolutely amazing right now. Oh wait, it isn't? Really makes you think.
    It is for some. No one is punished for being black. Instead, the country is crippled under government monopoly contracts and massive unions who still hold all of the power and will not allow modernization, of, for example, SAs power grid, becasue "No comrade must be put out of work". Also, people who preach liberation and socialism but are quite happy do be nepotistic and steal everything that isn't bolted down.

    You know what hasn't changed?

    Rich people from Overseas owning everything to do with extracting wealth and shipping it to Overseas. Who they are is changing slowly though, as the US and Europe wane.
    meh

  10. #22810
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    You know what hasn't changed?

    Rich people.
    At last we come to a consensus!

  11. #22811
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    You know what hasn't changed?

    Rich people.
    At last we come to a consensus!
    Guess who's consistently at the bottom of the class ladder, so, no, no we haven't. I interject it it to most conversations about US politics, becasue the parallels are shocking, quite frankly.
    meh

  12. #22812
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    The poor?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Povert..._United_States

    Poverty and race/ethnicity

    Poverty rates by gender and work status for Americans aged 65 and over
    The US Census declared that in 2014 14.8% of the general population lived in poverty:[82]
    10.1% of all white non-Hispanic persons
    12.0% of all Asian persons
    23.6% of all Hispanic persons (of any race)
    26.2% of all African American persons
    28.3% of Native Americans / Alaska Natives

    As of 2010 about half of those living in poverty are non-Hispanic white (19.6 million).[82] Non-Hispanic white children comprised 57% of all poor rural children.[83]

    In FY 2009, African American families comprised 33.3% of TANF families, non-Hispanic white families comprised 31.2%, and 28.8% were Hispanic.[84]
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  13. #22813
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    The poor?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Povert..._United_States

    Poverty and race/ethnicity

    Poverty rates by gender and work status for Americans aged 65 and over
    The US Census declared that in 2014 14.8% of the general population lived in poverty:[82]
    10.1% of all white non-Hispanic persons
    12.0% of all Asian persons
    23.6% of all Hispanic persons (of any race)
    26.2% of all African American persons
    28.3% of Native Americans / Alaska Natives

    As of 2010 about half of those living in poverty are non-Hispanic white (19.6 million).[82] Non-Hispanic white children comprised 57% of all poor rural children.[83]

    In FY 2009, African American families comprised 33.3% of TANF families, non-Hispanic white families comprised 31.2%, and 28.8% were Hispanic.[84]
    So, from the data you posted, we see that (roughly) 1 in 10 white people is poor and (roughly) 1 in 4 black, Hispanic or Native American people is poor. Almost 1 in 3 for original people.
    meh

  14. #22814
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_a..._United_States

    Self-identified race Percent of population
    Non-Hispanic white 63.4%
    Hispanic and Latino 15.3%
    Black or African American 13.4%
    Asian 5.9%
    Native Americans and Alaska Natives 1.3%
    Native Hawaiians and Other Pacific Islanders 0.2%
    Two or more races 2.7%

    Have fun doing some multiplication to find the number of people living in poverty in the USA and seeing how retarded it is to not focus on poverty in general but based on race.
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  15. #22815
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_a..._United_States

    Self-identified race Percent of population
    Non-Hispanic white 63.4%
    Hispanic and Latino 15.3%
    Black or African American 13.4%
    Asian 5.9%
    Native Americans and Alaska Natives 1.3%
    Native Hawaiians and Other Pacific Islanders 0.2%
    Two or more races 2.7%

    Have fun doing some multiplication to find the number of people living in poverty in the USA and seeing how retarded it is to not focus on poverty in general but based on race.
    You posted the data I need to prove my point for me, in the previous post, so it's cool.
    meh

  16. #22816
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    Not big surprise. In other news:

    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  17. #22817

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Have fun doing some multiplication to find the number of people living in poverty in the USA and seeing how retarded it is to not focus on poverty in general but based on race.
    Saying "Race doesn't matter only poverty" is the same shit you were peddling last time and it is still wrong.

  18. #22818
    Jack Coutu's Avatar
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    Yeah the whole concept that talking about race means you are doing the rich a service is fucking dumb. Both walrus and lief are peddling things that are just fucking wrong. You can't just say systemic racism and identity polifics are evil tools and then pretend racism isn't a connected but separate beast from economic inequality. Im a socialist and I fucking despise the "stop talking about racism! Talk about being poor!" There are issues here more complex than whatever ivory tower philosophy moron that dictated a solution to you.

    Curbing racism can easily aid movements towards a more equal system for all. The same shit police forces that oppress black people go for other poor people when they have any chance too. Broken social systems and poor education funding are problems that if remedied aid ALL.

    Keep fretting about cancel culture and social media though, I'm sure its truly the biggest problem in our world.

  19. #22819
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    Actually it's poverty and climate change. Both don't give a fuck about race and they go round the world, killing whoever they please.
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  20. #22820
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post
    Yeah the whole concept that talking about race means you are doing the rich a service is fucking dumb. Both walrus and lief are peddling things that are just fucking wrong. You can't just say systemic racism and identity polifics are evil tools and then pretend racism isn't a connected but separate beast from economic inequality. Im a socialist and I fucking despise the "stop talking about racism! Talk about being poor!" There are issues here more complex than whatever ivory tower philosophy moron that dictated a solution to you.

    Curbing racism can easily aid movements towards a more equal system for all. The same shit police forces that oppress black people go for other poor people when they have any chance too. Broken social systems and poor education funding are problems that if remedied aid ALL.

    Keep fretting about cancel culture and social media though, I'm sure its truly the biggest problem in our world.
    It's not that I dont think race gender etc have a very real impact on society, rather that I dont think it is anything essential to those identities. It is the material reality and the arms of capitalism, imperialism, and colonialism that have used and reinforced these identities to serve the interests of capitalists.

    No one thinks racism shouldn't be curbed except actual racists. Curbing racism isn't enough though, at all. It should be the first step towards building class consciousness and uniting the working class. South Africa 'defeated racism' and capitalists have still gutted that country of its wealth.

    Cancel culture and identity politics idiots are not the biggest issue in the world, but this is the political shots fired thread. Sorry I didn't check with you before posting related content to this thread.
    Last edited by Approaching Walrus; July 20 2020 at 05:33:19 AM.

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